Reflections on Diwali

For the corresponding video please visit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0N7LBNczSOc

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10/20/2011 12:46 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: Namaste
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10/20/2011 1:01 pm (et) Moderator: Today, our topic is ‘Reflections on Diwali’ with Bhavna Shinde Hurley, spokesperson for Forum for Hindu Awakening and Hinduism Education Coordinator at the Durga Temple of Virginia. For more information go to http://forumforhinduawakening.org/.
10/20/2011 1:01 pm (et) Moderator: As always, I would like to remind you of the rules of our engagement. This is a respectful place where we come together to learn more about the religions of the world. Whether you agree or disagree, we welcome your comments and questions that are posed in a respectful manner. Please no profane or offensive remarks, they will not be posted. Also, this is a place of learning, so please refrain from ‘soapboxing.’ If there are any issues or questions about this, they can be submitted along with the comments pertaining to our topic. I am here to make this a pleasant and educational experience for all, so enjoy and remember there are no stupid questions, just hostile ones!
10/20/2011 1:02 pm (et) Moderator: You can now view the beginning comments on the right. As you listen, please feel free to start sending questions or comments (YES, we want your comments). Also, the video will remain within the sidebar, so feel free to return to it as you wish. Our chat window automatically refreshes to keep the flow going, but if you wish to view the whole of the conversation, just hit the archive button. And lastly, PLEASE do not use double quotes as it leads to some issues
10/20/2011 1:03 pm (et) Vikings: private message to Moderator: logs in on 10/20/2011 1:03 pm (et).
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10/20/2011 1:10 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: These three days are a single festival correct? What binds the three specific days together? Is there a common theme?
10/20/2011 1:11 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: Yes, the three days come under the festival of Diwali or more correctly, Deepavali.
10/20/2011 1:11 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: Deepavali means a row of lights.
10/20/2011 1:11 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: On these 3 days, the celebrations involve lighting of rows of lamps for various purposes.
10/20/2011 1:11 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: The lamps are wick lamps and use oil.
10/20/2011 1:12 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: The theme is to go from (spiritual) darkness or ignorance about one's divine nature to the (spiritual) light of Knowledge about the divine and self.
10/20/2011 1:13 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: The festival also celebrates the triumph of the divine or Righteousness (Dharma) over evil,
10/20/2011 1:13 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: as Hindus celebrate the victory of their revered Incarnation Krushna (Krishna)
10/20/2011 1:13 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: who slayed the evil demon Narakasur
10/20/2011 1:14 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: and vanquished the demon king Bali
10/20/2011 1:14 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: (hope this answered your question
10/20/2011 1:16 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: there are so many meanings to this festival. What meaning was the original, first or oldest? What is the history of this festival (when was it first celebrated by Hindus)?
10/20/2011 1:17 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: The original meaning is the spiritual meaning
10/20/2011 1:17 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: namely, of going from spiritual darkness to spiritual light.
10/20/2011 1:17 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: Yes definitely, I was also interested in how far reaching these triumphs are. Hindus are celebrating the triumph over evil, is this the triumph of evil for the world or just Hindus say?
10/20/2011 1:17 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: Like when you talked about using the broom to sweep away pverty, is this hoping to sweep away the poverty of all?
10/20/2011 1:17 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: Yes, indeed
10/20/2011 1:18 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: The festival came to be celebrated in the times of Krushna as concerning the two days called Narakchaturdashi and Balipratipada.
10/20/2011 1:18 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: I find it interesting that the Hindu lunar calendar apparenly has each month begin on a full moon rather than the new moon, as seems more common to other lunar calendars (e.g the Jewish and Muslim)
10/20/2011 1:18 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: The festival, while celebrated by Hindus, is really for universal benefit.
10/20/2011 1:19 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: The Hindu months begin with the new moon
10/20/2011 1:19 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: and end in the no moon after 2 fortnights, the bright and the dark.
10/20/2011 1:19 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: In some Hindu communities, hailing from North of India,
10/20/2011 1:20 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: the calendar month may end in full moon, but it always
10/20/2011 1:20 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: begins with the new moon.
10/20/2011 1:20 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: So, this might be a bit off topic, but since it is such a question in my own tradition, I'm wondering what the answer to this is in Hinduism. Since this is celebrating the triumph over evil, where does the evil we experience in life come from?
10/20/2011 1:20 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: The lunar system of measuring time is considered to be more accurate than the solar system.
10/20/2011 1:21 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: In the Hindu Scriptures, it is said that nature is a reflection of human mind.
10/20/2011 1:21 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: Thus, what we see around us, in the current times, predominantly negative,
10/20/2011 1:22 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: is a reflection of the decline in the spiritual level of individuals and society at large
10/20/2011 1:22 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: due to a lack of spiritual practice.
10/20/2011 1:22 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: Evil, such as hurting others, crime, etc., ultimately starts from within the person.
10/20/2011 1:22 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: Of course, in Hinduism
10/20/2011 1:22 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: we have the concept of afterlife and subtle regions
10/20/2011 1:22 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: In the video you say that Diwali starts on the 13th day of the lunar month. This year Oct. 24. Oct 11 was the last full moon thus if Oct 24 is mid month, then this Hindu month started in Full moon
10/20/2011 1:23 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: There is some difference
10/20/2011 1:23 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: in the calculation of the almanac
10/20/2011 1:24 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: as mentioned in the video it will begin for some on the 25th
10/20/2011 1:24 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: the lunar almanac.
10/20/2011 1:24 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: Hope this has clarified it a bit.
10/20/2011 1:24 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: Going back to the question in terms of the time period this started
10/20/2011 1:25 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: the latest Incarnation is Krushna
10/20/2011 1:25 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: and that was over 5000 years ago.
10/20/2011 1:25 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: is this one of the oldest Hindu festivals?
10/20/2011 1:26 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: No
10/20/2011 1:26 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: As Hinduism is very ancient
10/20/2011 1:26 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: since 5000 years ago was the last of our Scriptures (the Gita, given by Krushna/Krishna)
10/20/2011 1:26 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: the celebration of festivals associated with
10/20/2011 1:27 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: much older Incarnations
10/20/2011 1:27 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: like Rama
10/20/2011 1:27 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: (considered to be 100s of 1000s of years ago)
10/20/2011 1:27 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: their celebration started much earlier.
10/20/2011 1:27 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: You mention in the video Bali was being punished for giving to the undeserving, what in Hinduism makes when deserving of alms?
10/20/2011 1:28 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: In Hindu Dharma those deserving of charity are those who will benefit others
10/20/2011 1:28 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: so, by the time recorded history begins, many of these traditions are already in place and we really only have legend to give us any earlier 'history'
10/20/2011 1:28 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: and not bring harm to others
10/20/2011 1:28 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: such as Saints, seats of spiritual and Dharma education,
10/20/2011 1:28 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: temples,
10/20/2011 1:29 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: as well one may give to causes such as schools, hospitals, etc.
10/20/2011 1:29 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: however, the most deserving are in that order
10/20/2011 1:29 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: as to how much benefit they bring to society
10/20/2011 1:29 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: accordingly Saints and seats of spiritual/Dharma education
10/20/2011 1:29 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: are the most deserving
10/20/2011 1:30 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: so charity is not a matter of helping those in need but helping those who help others?
10/20/2011 1:31 pm (et) Clark Lobenstine: If the celebration of Divali actually starts on October 25, why did we go to Fed Ex Field for the community celebration of Divali last Saturday?
10/20/2011 1:31 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: yes, one can help others in need
10/20/2011 1:31 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: however, while donating one should make sure it will not be misused
10/20/2011 1:31 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: such as if the person indulges in negative things
10/20/2011 1:31 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: Does the Dharma go into specifics? I mean we all have very different, and sometimes contradictory ideas of what is to the benefit of society?
10/20/2011 1:31 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: then that donation would be in vain
10/20/2011 1:32 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: Yes, Dharma goes into specifics
10/20/2011 1:32 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: such as it prescribes donating to
10/20/2011 1:32 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: Saints, seats of Dharma education, such as Brahmins (priests)
10/20/2011 1:32 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: as well donating to the needy
10/20/2011 1:33 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: In the order of spiritual benefit received by the donor
10/20/2011 1:33 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: it depends on the deserving nature of the recipient and the spiritual emotion of the donor
10/20/2011 1:33 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: the donor should not donate out of ego
10/20/2011 1:33 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: but out of humility
10/20/2011 1:34 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: that to begin with everything belongs to God
10/20/2011 1:34 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: he is merely being given the opportunity by the recipient to be an instrument
10/20/2011 1:34 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: in God's work
10/20/2011 1:34 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: That is certainlynot a far stretch from my own tradition, the whole 'don't let your right hand know what your left is doing'
10/20/2011 1:34 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: God, who looks after the acquatic life in the deepest seas is more than capable of taking care of the recipient.
10/20/2011 1:35 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: so tithe to the church fits with this idea of Dharmic charity?
10/20/2011 1:35 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: yes
10/20/2011 1:35 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: donating to the temples or Dharmik seats
10/20/2011 1:35 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: So God is taking an active role through the person working for the good?
10/20/2011 1:35 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: is an integral (and hence) a regular part of the duties
10/20/2011 1:35 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: for those who follow Hindu Dharma
10/20/2011 1:35 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: actually
10/20/2011 1:35 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: I'm just wondering if it has echoes in the talk of grace
10/20/2011 1:36 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: the donor remaining anonymous is a good practice
10/20/2011 1:36 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: as it helps keep the ego at bay
10/20/2011 1:36 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: that one has donated
10/20/2011 1:36 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: so it is similar to what you were saying
10/20/2011 1:36 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: let the left hand not know the right hand's doing
10/20/2011 1:37 pm (et) Clark Lobenstine: The donor remaining anonymous is also a feature of other religious traditions
10/20/2011 1:37 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: that shoud be the spiritual emotion of the donor
10/20/2011 1:37 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: that he is a mere instrument
10/20/2011 1:37 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: so he keeps an attitude of gratitude and humility
10/20/2011 1:37 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: do a lot of people actually give with the idea of gaining spiritual merit?
10/20/2011 1:37 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: oh ok
10/20/2011 1:37 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: I did not understand the question
10/20/2011 1:37 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: what does it mean to give the idea ?
10/20/2011 1:38 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: Are we talking about my question?
10/20/2011 1:38 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: Laura's
10/20/2011 1:38 pm (et) Clark Lobenstine: remind me what the reason is behind giving $101 or $501 instead of $100 or $500
10/20/2011 1:38 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: I give so I can gain merit rather than simply giving to help others. The first is ego filled, not the second
10/20/2011 1:39 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: here
10/20/2011 1:39 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: ego can exist even in the feeling that I am helping others
10/20/2011 1:39 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: Agreed with you
10/20/2011 1:39 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: that to do it out of expectation of merit has ego
10/20/2011 1:39 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: best is to harbor no ego
10/20/2011 1:40 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: but that can come only with conscious spiritual practice and efforts to overcome the ego
10/20/2011 1:40 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: which can come finally only with grace
10/20/2011 1:40 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: as ego is all pervading one's identity
10/20/2011 1:40 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: Sorry, Susan, what was your question ?
10/20/2011 1:41 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: Re: clark's question: the amount given is linked to the idea of auspicious and inauspicious numbers. in some cultures, numbers ending in zero is inauspicious. I believe, in Indian culture multiples of 108 are especially auspicious
10/20/2011 1:41 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: yes, Laura
10/20/2011 1:41 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: Oh, it was actually about some of what you just said. I was wondering how much of a similarity I could draw with the Christian concept of grace
10/20/2011 1:41 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: sometimes it can be linked to the idea of energy
10/20/2011 1:41 pm (et) Clark Lobenstine: Grace and no effort to minimize our taxes! The IRS gives US taxpayers the option of itemizing our deductions and an important part of that for me is cash and non-cash charitable deductions
10/20/2011 1:42 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: I have always wondered: WHY 108? What's the significance of that number
10/20/2011 1:42 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: like odd numbers are linked with divine energy (shakti) while even numbers with divine principle (tattva)
10/20/2011 1:42 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: 108 has a lot of significance
10/20/2011 1:43 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: it is associated with the multiples of chanting
10/20/2011 1:43 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: Hindus do
10/20/2011 1:43 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: as it is derived from the number of breaths we take in a certain period
10/20/2011 1:43 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: and how much of it should be minimum offered to God
10/20/2011 1:44 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: by remembering God
10/20/2011 1:44 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: (at least half the breaths should be devoted unto God's rememberance
10/20/2011 1:44 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: as well
10/20/2011 1:44 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: it is derived from the 108 subtle frequencies that hit the earth
10/20/2011 1:44 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: various regions of earth in total
10/20/2011 1:44 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: Interesting connection: 108, take the zero out and you have 18, which is a significant number in Judaism (because, in Hebrew, it spells the word 'life')
10/20/2011 1:45 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: and also it is a multiple of the 6 main internal foes we have within (anger, lust, pride, envy, attachment, etc.)
10/20/2011 1:45 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: oh wow
10/20/2011 1:45 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: so 108 is a cosmic thing
10/20/2011 1:45 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: yes
10/20/2011 1:46 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: Ok, since we are getting off topic a bit anyways, I was wondering how you view Hinduism, if it is a polytheistic tradition?
10/20/2011 1:46 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: actually, only the other day
10/20/2011 1:46 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: I came across a discussion
10/20/2011 1:46 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: about this
10/20/2011 1:47 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: to say that Hindu Dharma is polytheistic or monotheistic
10/20/2011 1:47 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: none of it would fully describe it
10/20/2011 1:47 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: and the very paradigm would need to shift
10/20/2011 1:47 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: I can simply summarize it for you as this
10/20/2011 1:47 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: then you can decide
10/20/2011 1:47 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: whether you want to fit it into polytheism or monotheism
10/20/2011 1:48 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: in Hindu Dharma
10/20/2011 1:48 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: it is not there is only one God
10/20/2011 1:48 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: but that there is only God
10/20/2011 1:48 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: nothing but God
10/20/2011 1:48 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: Sounds like you have the same discussion we have over the Christian Trinity!
10/20/2011 1:48 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: so everything is God
10/20/2011 1:48 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde:
10/20/2011 1:48 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: the divine hierarchy goes like this
10/20/2011 1:48 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: susan, the question might be like asking is Christianity monotheistic or tri-theistic? To the Christian mind, it's the same one God'
10/20/2011 1:48 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: The Supreme Unmanifest God Principle (Parameshwar)
10/20/2011 1:49 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: from whom emanates God (Ishwar)
10/20/2011 1:49 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: who is also unmanifest
10/20/2011 1:49 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: who further manifests in various principles
10/20/2011 1:49 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: divine principles
10/20/2011 1:49 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: like the main 5
10/20/2011 1:50 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: Creation (Bramhaa), Multiplicity (Shakti)
10/20/2011 1:50 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: One might wonder if the more strict monotheism of Judiaism and Islam actually places a LIMIT on God by saying God is not in the things of this world and does not manifest in many forms
10/20/2011 1:50 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: Sustenance (Vishnu)
10/20/2011 1:50 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: Destruction (Shiva) and
10/20/2011 1:50 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: Bliss (Ganesh)
10/20/2011 1:50 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: from whom emanate other divine principles
10/20/2011 1:50 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: various permutations and combinations
10/20/2011 1:50 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: like the millions of shades of color
10/20/2011 1:51 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: emanating from the RGB primary colors
10/20/2011 1:51 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: Taoism and Shinto are much the same way - the one (Chi) gives rise to two (yin yang) which gives rise to the Five Elements...
10/20/2011 1:51 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: hmm
10/20/2011 1:51 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: the many are part of the one
10/20/2011 1:51 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: I am getting to learn many things today
10/20/2011 1:52 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: yes
10/20/2011 1:52 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: so that God principle exists as per Hindu Dharma
10/20/2011 1:52 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: in every person
10/20/2011 1:52 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: and everything - animate or inanimate
10/20/2011 1:52 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: but in differing proportions
10/20/2011 1:52 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: Could you explain emanation? I mean Augustine uses similar vocabulary, but I have a feeling it means something different in the context, does it mean there is an actual presence of what has come before it?
10/20/2011 1:53 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: In a Saint or God realized person even much more
10/20/2011 1:53 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: yes
10/20/2011 1:53 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: Susan: the sun 'eminates' rays of light energy that extend far from the point of origin
10/20/2011 1:53 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: like yellow exists as a combination of green and blue
10/20/2011 1:54 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: oh no
10/20/2011 1:54 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: that is eminate
10/20/2011 1:54 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: it is different from emanation
10/20/2011 1:54 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: but then again
10/20/2011 1:54 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: my English is limited
10/20/2011 1:54 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: so what I meant to say is
10/20/2011 1:54 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: like the analogy of yellow coming from
10/20/2011 1:54 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: green and blue
10/20/2011 1:55 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: thus, a particular Deity
10/20/2011 1:55 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: like Datta
10/20/2011 1:55 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: has 80% Vishnu (Sustenance) principle
10/20/2011 1:55 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: so the unmanifest eminates divine energy infinitely in all directions
10/20/2011 1:55 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: or like all the many colors of the rainbow come from and are contained in white light?
10/20/2011 1:56 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: in white light we do not see the colors but they are all there, hidden (unmanifest)
10/20/2011 1:56 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: yes
10/20/2011 1:56 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: like the white
10/20/2011 1:56 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: and other colors
10/20/2011 1:56 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: Ok, yes it does seem different, I think that is why Christianity tends towards language of 'procession' instead
10/20/2011 1:57 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: I wonder if the light analogy would also work to explain the Christian trinity
10/20/2011 1:57 pm (et) Moderator: Alright, we have just a couple of minutes left, so please finish any concluding thoughts.
10/20/2011 1:58 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: Thank you for giving me this opportunity to present about Deepavali, our festival of lights.
10/20/2011 1:58 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: I pray for universal understanding on this upcoming auspicious occasion.
10/20/2011 1:58 pm (et) Clark Lobenstine: Susan, you may want to say much of Christianity rather than Christianity. We are a very diverse group!
10/20/2011 1:58 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: I like this light analogy. One can make an infinite number of colors out of just three primary and those three primary come from/ are contained in white light
10/20/2011 1:58 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: I invite you all
10/20/2011 1:58 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: to our celebration at the Durga Temple
10/20/2011 1:59 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: I'm glad you liked it, Laura
10/20/2011 1:59 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: I too, found it helps make sense
10/20/2011 1:59 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: similarly, the divine can be seen all around us, in countless forms, yet all comes from just one UNmanifest divine source of all
10/20/2011 1:59 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: yes indeed
10/20/2011 2:00 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: If you have any suggestions for me to improve
10/20/2011 2:00 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: one or many? you decide
10/20/2011 2:00 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: yes. please feel free to
10/20/2011 2:00 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: contact me
10/20/2011 2:00 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: at info@ForumforHinduAwakening.org
10/20/2011 2:00 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: you can also learn more about this festival and Hinduism at this site
10/20/2011 2:00 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde: ForumforHinduAwakening.org
10/20/2011 2:00 pm (et) Bhavna Shinde:
10/20/2011 2:01 pm (et) Moderator: Thank you for your participation today. Next week our chat is a ‘Goblins and Ghosts and Ghouls, Oh My!: A Look at the Spirit (s).’ We hope to see you there! If you would like to contact or guest, please contact me at rebeccac@ifcmw.org.
10/20/2011 2:01 pm (et) Moderator: Also, this is a new effort on our part so we welcome your feedback! Any comments will be helpful. If you have any suggestion please feel free to email me at rebeccac@ifcmw.org.
10/20/2011 2:01 pm (et) Moderator: This moderated chat room is just one example of the many programs which the InterFaith Conference is doing. If you are able and willing to financially support the InterFaith Conference’s vital year-round work, please donate now using the donate button on our website – www.ifcmw.org. You can also find out more about us and sign up for our bi-monthly newsletter.

Sikhism and Interreligious Dialogue

The corresponding video can be found at the following link: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5500618248162714590#

10/13/2011 12:43 pm (et) Moderator: logs in on 10/13/2011 12:43 pm (et).
10/13/2011 12:50 pm (et) Megan: private message to Moderator: logs in on 10/13/2011 12:50 pm (et).
10/13/2011 12:56 pm (et) Rajwant Singh: logs in on 10/13/2011 12:56 pm (et).
10/13/2011 12:59 pm (et) John: private message to Moderator: logs in on 10/13/2011 12:59 pm (et).
10/13/2011 1:00 pm (et) Moderator: Welcome! This is Rebecca from the InterFaith Conference (IFC) and I will be your moderator. As this is still new, let me explain how this will work. On the right, you will see a video playing of our current topic to get the conversation going. If you have a comment and/or question send it along to me, the moderator. As long as I deem it appropriate, the comment will be posted to everyone and the speaker will have the opportunity to answer your question.
10/13/2011 1:00 pm (et) Moderator: Today, our topic is ‘Sikhism and Interreligious Dialogue’ with Dr. Rajwant Singh, Sikh member of IFC’s Board.
10/13/2011 1:00 pm (et) Moderator: As always, I would like to remind you of the rules of our engagement. This is a respectful place where we come together to learn more about the religions of the world. Whether you agree or disagree, we welcome your comments and questions that are posed in a respectful manner. Please no profane or offensive remarks, they will not be posted. Also, this is a place of learning, so please refrain from ‘soapboxing.’ If there are any issues or questions about this, they can be submitted along with the comments pertaining to our topic. I am here to make this a pleasant and educational experience for all, so enjoy and remember there are no stupid questions, just hostile ones!
10/13/2011 1:01 pm (et) Moderator: You can now view the beginning comments on the right. As you listen, please feel free to start sending questions or comments (YES, we want your comments). This week, the video is a bit long, so when a question comes up, go ahead and send it.
10/13/2011 1:01 pm (et) Moderator: Also, the video will remain within the sidebar, so feel free to return to it as you wish. Our chat window automatically refreshes to keep the flow going, but if you wish to view the whole of the conversation, just hit the archive button. And lastly, PLEASE do not use double quotes as it leads to some issues.
10/13/2011 1:01 pm (et) LaGomez: private message to Moderator: logs in on 10/13/2011 1:01 pm (et).
10/13/2011 1:05 pm (et) Susan: private message to Moderator: logs in on 10/13/2011 1:05 pm (et).
10/13/2011 1:07 pm (et) Jerry Monder: private message to Moderator: logs in on 10/13/2011 1:07 pm (et).
10/13/2011 1:14 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: I heard that the Sikhs are not able to attend the Interreligious Peace Summit in Assisi because of issues related to the sword. Is that true? What is your opinion on that?
10/13/2011 1:16 pm (et) Rajwant Singh: I have not heard this yet. Last time, there was no problem with Kirpan - the ceremonial symbolic sword.
10/13/2011 1:16 pm (et) Rajwant Singh: I was an attendee at the Peace Summit at Assisi in 2002 and there was no restriction.
10/13/2011 1:17 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: Right, which is why it seems like a surprise that they would have an issue this time, but I had just heard it in passing, does it ever become an issue?
10/13/2011 1:18 pm (et) Rajwant Singh: It has come up from time to time. Because of the security concerns and hype about terrorism which is also a genuince concern. But we are continuously trying to educate others about this belief of Sikhs.
10/13/2011 1:20 pm (et) Rajwant Singh: Kirpan is a symbolic reminder for Sikhs to stand up for justice in society but people who are not familier with the tradition view it as a weapon. That is the root cause of the problem.
10/13/2011 1:20 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: Do most people accept the nuance once it has been explained? And do you have problems with the negative stereotypes in society?
10/13/2011 1:23 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: Do they get in the way of dialogue?
10/13/2011 1:26 pm (et) Moderator: Jerry Monder said: How do gender relations play out in the Sikh tradition? Historically and in modern times?
10/13/2011 1:28 pm (et) Rajwant Singh: Negative streotypes are always there. Many at times, these issue dominate and overshadow the central message of Sikhism.
10/13/2011 1:30 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: So why interreligious dialogue? What in Sikhism compels the community to participate with something like the IFC?
10/13/2011 1:31 pm (et) Rajwant Singh: Sikhism from the very begining has advocated equality among men and women. Sikh Gurus emphasized full participation of women in the society and in the decision making process. They strongly advocated that women must keep her face uncovered at all times and especially in public and as they would take a leading role in the affairs of the society or the religion.
10/13/2011 1:32 pm (et) sheaya: private message to Moderator: logs in on 10/13/2011 1:32 pm (et).
10/13/2011 1:34 pm (et) Moderator: LaGomez said: Has there been any important female leader in Sikhism?
10/13/2011 1:35 pm (et) Rajwant Singh: Sikhism is built on the premise that each religion has something valuable to teach and each religion deserves respect. Guru Nanak, the founder of Sikhism, himself traveled far distances to have dialogue with Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists and many spiritually oriented individuals. He took a giant leap by collecting hymns of many Hindu and Sufi saints and included in the hymn book which he was compiling. The message was clear that spirituality is not a domain of one tradition and no body has a monopoly on Truth or God.
10/13/2011 1:36 pm (et) Rajwant Singh: There have been many Sikh women who took a leading role in organizing the community historically and in the modern times.
10/13/2011 1:38 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: This may seem a bit off base, but I am sure that Sikhism doesn't want to affirm all religions, I mean some must be wrong since there are many contradictory statements out there, is there a measure of Truth for all religions?
10/13/2011 1:38 pm (et) Rajwant Singh: one of the largest Sikh organization making decisions for the worldwide community
10/13/2011 1:38 pm (et) Rajwant Singh: was headed by a women.
10/13/2011 1:40 pm (et) Rajwant Singh: Guru Nanak questioned the practices of faithful and reminded them of the intrinsic values imbedded in the faith tradition. He at times gave his viewpoint and proposed simplar path for enlightenment.
10/13/2011 1:41 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: Intrinsic values? Can you expand on what that means?
10/13/2011 1:43 pm (et) Rajwant Singh: Love of God, affirmation of God's presence, Respecting your own neighbor or fellow human being, forgiveness, humility, service, Love are some of the values given by almost all faiths.
10/13/2011 1:45 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: In dialogue, when confronted with differences as well as similarities, how are the differences faced?
10/13/2011 1:45 pm (et) Rajwant Singh: Guru Nanak said the problem arises when we are disconnected with our own divinity or our own creator. This creates a sense of duality and conflict which gives birth to much bigger conflict in society.
10/13/2011 1:48 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: So how does he propose to resolve that?
10/13/2011 1:48 pm (et) Rajwant Singh: Differences will always remain as long as we are not putting people down due to their belief system. Guru Tegh Bahadur gave his life to protect the religious freedom of the Hindus even though he did not follow the tradition. One must recognize that each human being is a human first and he or she is created by the same Creator and God has plan for that individual rather than me deciding his or her fate.
10/13/2011 1:50 pm (et) Rajwant Singh: I can follow my own path honestly and my deeper connection with God within is directly propotional to my spreading peace and love. Otherwise everything else is just mere talk.
10/13/2011 1:52 pm (et) Rajwant Singh: Guru Nanak was asked in Baghdad whether Hindus are superior or Muslims. His answer was it does not matter what label you have, it matter what your deeds are. Without loving acts, no one can claim superiority based on the theology only.
10/13/2011 1:52 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: That seems very similar to my own tradition, but I find myself struggling with other people's reactions. I mean we may intend to live this life of peace and love but are confronted at times with the opposite. How do the gurus say to respond?
10/13/2011 1:57 pm (et) Rajwant Singh: Negativity comes in many forms. Sometimes in the garb of religion, politics, nationalism, or even the very selfish motives in our day to day encounters. One has to become God like or Jesus like or Guru Nanak like or Buddha like - where these ups and downs do not take away our focus on reaching enlightenment. One cannot stop loving a child when he or she makes mistakes. Guru Nanak says you keep on doing what is in alignment with the divine non judgemental Presence. But at the same times, have the courage to speak the truth where one must stand up for respect, tolerance, human rights and equal treatment.
10/13/2011 1:58 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: Does Sikhism recognize those leaders in other traditions?
10/13/2011 1:59 pm (et) Moderator: Alright, we are about to end for the day, we'll answer this last question and Dr. Singh, if you have any concluding remarks
10/13/2011 2:00 pm (et) Rajwant Singh: Sikh scriptures did not mention any particular leader. It lays out focus on the message and not too much on the personality. Gurus themselves barred Sikhs to hold them as Gods or too special. They said the message is important and not the medioum. They said worry about your only chance of connecting with God being in the human form and do not waster this opportunity.
10/13/2011 2:01 pm (et) Moderator: Thank you for your participation today. Next week our chat is a ‘Reflections on Diwali’ with Bhavna Shinde. We hope to see you there! If you would like to contact or guest, please contact me at rebeccac@ifcmw.org.
10/13/2011 2:01 pm (et) Moderator: Also, this is a new effort on our part so we welcome your feedback! Any comments will be helpful. If you have any suggestion please feel free to email me at rebeccac@ifcmw.org.
10/13/2011 2:01 pm (et) Moderator: This moderated chat room is just one example of the many programs which the InterFaith Conference is doing. If you are able and willing to financially support the InterFaith Conference’s vital year-round work, please donate now using the donate button on our website – www.ifcmw.org. You can also find out more about us and sign up for our bi-monthly newsletter.

10/13/2011 2:02 pm (et) Rajwant Singh: Sikhism proposes that we are here to meet with our Beloved - our Creator and one must keep focus on the reaching to that goal and discover that Divine presence within and without.
10/13/2011 2:03 pm (et) Rajwant Singh: May all of us are blessed by God and May we all become co-travelers in this journey.
10/13/2011 2:03 pm (et) Rajwant Singh: Thanks.

Interreligious Prayer

The corresponding video can be viewed at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvfcWpw6iw0

10/6/2011 12:45 pm (et) Moderator: logs in on 10/6/2011 12:45 pm (et).
10/6/2011 12:48 pm (et) Fr. Gardiner: logs in on 10/6/2011 12:48 pm (et).
10/6/2011 12:52 pm (et) Susan: private message to Moderator: logs in on 10/6/2011 12:52 pm (et).
10/6/2011 12:53 pm (et) Megan E: private message to Moderator: logs in on 10/6/2011 12:53 pm (et).
10/6/2011 12:55 pm (et) lagomez: private message to Moderator: logs in on 10/6/2011 12:55 pm (et).
10/6/2011 12:57 pm (et) Laura S: private message to Moderator: logs in on 10/6/2011 12:57 pm (et).
10/6/2011 1:00 pm (et) Moderator: Welcome! This is Rebecca from the InterFaith Conference (IFC) and I will be your moderator. As this is still new, let me explain how this will work. On the right, you will see a video playing of our current topic to get the conversation going. If you have a comment and/or question send it along to me, the moderator. As long as I deem it appropriate, the comment will be posted to everyone and the speaker will have the opportunity to answer your question.
10/6/2011 1:01 pm (et) Moderator: Today, our topic is ‘Interreligious Prayer.’ The reflection is from Fr. James Gardiner of the Franciscan Friars of the Atonement and coordinator of DC’s celebration commemorating the 25th Anniversary of the Assisi Interreligious Day of Prayer for Peace.
10/6/2011 1:01 pm (et) Moderator: As always, I would like to remind you of the rules of our engagement. This is a respectful place where we come together to learn more about the religions of the world. Whether you agree or disagree, we welcome your comments and questions that are posed in a respectful manner. Please no profane or offensive remarks, they will not be posted. Also, this is a place of learning, so please refrain from ‘soapboxing.’ If there are any issues or questions about this, they can be submitted along with the comments pertaining to our topic. I am here to make this a pleasant and educational experience for all, so enjoy and remember there are no stupid questions, just hostile ones!
10/6/2011 1:02 pm (et) Moderator: You can now view the beginning comments on the right. As you listen, please feel free to start sending questions or comments (YES, we want your comments). Also, the video will remain within the sidebar, so feel free to return to it as you wish. Our chat window automatically refreshes to keep the flow going, but if you wish to view the whole of the conversation, just hit the archive button. And lastly, PLEASE do not use double quotes as it leads to some issues.
10/6/2011 1:05 pm (et) sheaya: private message to Moderator: logs in on 10/6/2011 1:05 pm (et).
10/6/2011 1:07 pm (et) Moderator: We have this comment from our Facebook page, so Fr. Gardiner can you begin by addressing this: I like the idea of praying with special intention, for ten days in an inter-religious context, for peace. But the Jewish liturgy already includes a prayer for peace three times every day, so I'd like to know a little more about what is different about this prayer... I cannot find substantial details about the interreligious service on the 16th from the Friars' website. Where could I find information?
10/6/2011 1:07 pm (et) Clark Lobenstine: logs in on 10/6/2011 1:07 pm (et).
10/6/2011 1:11 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: While a sentiment such as peace is certainly universal, how can faiths like Buddhism, which does not pray to a god, pray with faiths that do pray to a god? What sort of WORDS can be said that would not offend some of the faiths present? How can Christians pray with non-Christians when Christians pray 'in the name of Jesus' and such a phrase would offend any non-Christians (especially Jews and Muslims) present, yet leaving the phrase out might be off-putting to some Christians? In short: while we share universal sentiments, how to we find universal words by which to express such sentiment?
10/6/2011 1:11 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: Fr. Gardiner, you said something along the line of 'properly multireligious prayer' what is the distinction?
10/6/2011 1:11 pm (et) Fr. Gardiner: Thanks for your interest. We should ALL be praying for peace every day (some might say all day!) because the peace which we are envisioning is nothing short of a gift of God. We RCs have a prayer for peace in our daily liturgy. What's different about the interreligious gathering on the 16th is, first of all, it's an interreligious gathering -- people of faith who express that gift of faith in various ways. second, we're gathering together to commemorate the first of these multi-religius gatherings which took place in Assisi, Italy, twenty-five years ago. (I was there.) and ourgathering will inaugurate ten days of prayer for peace during which we hope that we will use one another's prayers for peace
10/6/2011 1:13 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: It is true Laura, I work with an interfaith group that brings together Jews and Christians. There is a prayer said every week that mentions that we should do all that we can do for the good of the world, but at the end I feel the need to add 'with the help of your Grace' which is decidedly not Jewish
10/6/2011 1:14 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: It seems we all bring particular presuppositions to our prayers.
10/6/2011 1:15 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: Susan, would it be enough to 'say' these words silently within one's own mind rather than with ones lips, so that others' ears won't hear?
10/6/2011 1:16 pm (et) Fr. Gardiner: You pinpoint a challenge and I can only refer to my experience at the first of these gatherings in Assisi in 1986. Each one prayed without any recrimination; and we learned from one another. No one, I recall, was offended. It seems to me that weneed to be authentic representatives of our respective traditions. If this is the way we pray, then this is the way we pray and we're not afriad or ashamed to share that with one another. What bothers me, sometimes, is that we seem to be getting shy about praying in front of anybody these days. Whenever someone says to me, 'shall we pray,' I'm ready.
10/6/2011 1:16 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: I mean that is the practice I have adopted, but I am not sure if it just glosses over the issue...I mean it solves how people would react, but it doesn't seem to change that I am praying differently
10/6/2011 1:17 pm (et) Fr. Gardiner: by properly interreligious, I understand something that's authentic in a tradition -- not something simply made up for the occasion (although those things have their place, for example, when we're speaking for everyone as at invocation for a civic event.
10/6/2011 1:18 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: Fr, so the people at these gatherings do not pray in unison with the people of other faiths? Rather, they are taking turns each sharing their own prayers while the others listen respectfully but not necessarilly saying reciting the prayers of other faiths?
10/6/2011 1:18 pm (et) Fr. Gardiner: that's what we're planning. although we are planning to sing together. who was it that said, however, that s/he who sings once, prays twice?
10/6/2011 1:19 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: is it difficult to find songs that are more universal than the prayers?
10/6/2011 1:19 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: Or easier to find more universal songs?
10/6/2011 1:20 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: So can a Catholic pray say a Muslim prayer? Or just respect that a Muslim is praying? And are there universal prayers?
10/6/2011 1:21 pm (et) Fr. Gardiner: 'yes' tothe question is an understatement! and finding syrics and melodies that are not totlly unknown makes it more challenging. maybe we need to challenge religious composers to partner with theologians and help us solve this problem.
10/6/2011 1:21 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: some religions (like Islam) do not sing - so how can they feel comfortable with song as an expression of faith in these interfaith gatherings?
10/6/2011 1:22 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: Fr, 'yes' is it more difficult or easier? (sounds like you are saying difficult but just want to clarify)
10/6/2011 1:23 pm (et) Fr. Gardiner: I see noreason why a Catholic couldn't say a Muslim prayer; itwould obviously depend on the text. The same is true for Muslims being invited to say Christian prayers. And not all Christians are totally comfortable with one another's prayers/
10/6/2011 1:23 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: I can see how finding familar melodies would be more difficult, perhaps, then finding words that are more universally acceptable
10/6/2011 1:24 pm (et) Fr. Gardiner: there are many ways of participating in such gatherings; present -- respectful, attentive, etc.
10/6/2011 1:25 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: so long as those Christian prayers do not end with 'in Jesus' name we pray'
10/6/2011 1:25 pm (et) Clark Lobenstine: It is my understanding that Assisi used the model of "coming together to pray". In the InterFaith Conference, we have used this, but prefer where possible to say we are "coming to pray together." And praying in such a way that all can say Amen.
10/6/2011 1:26 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: Why do you feel interreligious is so special when it comes to prayer?
10/6/2011 1:28 pm (et) Fr. Gardiner: by yes, it's more difficult to find melodies as well as lyrics. for the past several New Year's mornings, I participated in a 'prayer for peace' event at a local Buddhist monastery. all the participants (who were termed the 'ususal suspects') were invited to speak/pray for four minutes apiece. invariably two, if not three, would resort to the 'peace prayer' of 'saint Francis' (which wasn't authored by St. Francis). that to me was an indicator of how difficult it is to find words that resonate with all our traditions.
10/6/2011 1:29 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: I'd like to share MY answer to Susan's question: coming together in prayer is special because if we believe we humans are all one under 'god', from the same source, coming together demonstrates this 'oneness' and the 'connectedness' of all humanity
10/6/2011 1:30 pm (et) Fr. Gardiner: from a Christian perspective, I'm convinced that where two or three or more are gathered together, there I am in the midst of them. it's not a question of 'the more, the merrier,' but of real presence.
10/6/2011 1:31 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: I guess it may seem like a stupid question, but are they praying to the same God? I mean we all come with different presuppositions, so does that get in the way?
10/6/2011 1:32 pm (et) Fr. Gardiner: may I add to Laura's answer to Susan? I have a gnawing suspicion that most of the fences we're erected are the cause of many of our problems. I'm from the Bronx and the hedges we had between our respective back yards were move an invitation than a barrier.
10/6/2011 1:34 pm (et) Fr. Gardiner: most of us, I suspect, that God is by definition 'one' and our prayers eventually get to the God of gods and Lord of lords.
10/6/2011 1:34 pm (et) Moderator: Megan E said: Fr. Gardiner, I have heard it said that things like interfaith prayer are 'watered down' compared to what might be said by just one religion. How would you respond to this?
10/6/2011 1:34 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: Susan, I suppose if someone feared that prayers of an interfaith gathering were going to some 'other' god then those are the sort of people who would not attend such a gathering (though perhaps this shows that we need to do something to make it possible for such people to feel comfortable rather than fear such a gathering - how do we do that?)
10/6/2011 1:36 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: Well, I would think the fear would be more of that the prayers are not going to any god...
10/6/2011 1:37 pm (et) Fr. Gardiner: Lots of things get watered down, unfortunately. just look at greeting cards! or political platforms! the list could go on. we've got two problems to deal with: first is the inability of our words, phrases and concepts to encompass some realities; second is our need to respect one another in a way that reflects that each one is created in the image and likeness of God. all language -- the language of love is one example -- is watered down when it comes to the real thing.
10/6/2011 1:38 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: 'the tao that can be spoken is not the true tao'
10/6/2011 1:39 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: God who is love is beyond reason and words
10/6/2011 1:39 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: the true 'name' of god cannot be spoken (the sacred tetragramaton) and the 100th 'hidden' name of god (Islam)
10/6/2011 1:39 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: perhaps, then the key to interfaith prayer is simply being together in the silence!
10/6/2011 1:39 pm (et) Fr. Gardiner: I'm not sure how such fears can be addresed; one thing I am sure of, however, is that we don't have enough opportunities to have these kinds of experiences and the lack of such epxeriences can breed fear, i.e. fear of the unknown.
10/6/2011 1:41 pm (et) Fr. Gardiner: Laura, you just put your finger on something that will be prominent in both Assisi and here in DC -- silence. I'm reminded of the prophet who encountered the Lord God not in the powerful demonstrations of nature, but in near silence.
10/6/2011 1:42 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: I like that Laura, silence for me has always somehow been connected with awe and if anything, I think that is central to all traditions, not that I'm going Rudolf Otto or anything
10/6/2011 1:44 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: What do you think we can learn from such spiritual encounters with other traditions? Laura, you mention that it highlights the 'unity' of humanity, but do you think this can lead to learning of the differences too?
10/6/2011 1:45 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: Someone like Paul Knitter talks about how working together on issues breeds trust that can lead to conversation, but can prayer do the same? Is it already moving into those deeper conversations?
10/6/2011 1:45 pm (et) Fr. Gardiner: Here's a problem: we Americans, it seems, can't seem to tolerate silence much. We need not so much sound, but noice. One of the things we're planning at the Franciscan Monastery of the Holy Land is the erection of an urban hermitage. We desperately need places, it seems to me, to be silent more than we are now. That doesn't mean that we should refrain from raising our voices in protest, for example, in the fact of obvious injustice or, which seems to be more difficult, in praise.
10/6/2011 1:48 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: Well it also seems silence can be misconstrued...silence can be interpreted with the old saying 'if you have nothing nice to say, say nothing at all'
10/6/2011 1:48 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: It's ambiguous
10/6/2011 1:48 pm (et) Fr. Gardiner: I'm currently re-reading Paul Knitter's latest book on how he's a better Christian because of his growing familiarity with Buddhism. Some of our mutual friends think that he went too far, but I feel the jury is still out on that one. As a Christian, I think that all inter-religious encounters can be helpful to our own faith. that's my experience anyway.
10/6/2011 1:48 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: Well, I personally gravitate to our similarities. when it comes to learning about differences, I find that dialogue rather than interfaith prayer is more effective. But the focus on connections through similiarities always stikes me as more significant than our differences. However, we certainly should respect and even come to value or appreciate the differences within the similarities
10/6/2011 1:49 pm (et) Fr. Gardiner: just liek there's a time to be born and a time to die and time for any number of other things, there are times to speak -- loudly if necessary -- and times to be quiet. People form the Bronx, like me, resonate with the former.
10/6/2011 1:51 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: It is similarities that bring us together. It is differences that give us our unique identities. But uniqueness smacks of ego development and it seems to me that one goal of all religions is to decrease rather than increase personal ego, subdue it under a larger context (be that god or the one universe we all live in or simply the one human family that we are all a part of)
10/6/2011 1:53 pm (et) Fr. Gardiner: Laura hits the nail on the head; it's an argument (not a 'proof') that faith and religion and all that goes with it is, for the want of a better word, 'living.'
10/6/2011 1:53 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: so coming together is not so much to 'celebrate our differences' as to recognize the larger context of which these differences are a part of a shared and common foundation
10/6/2011 1:55 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: too often it is the differences between religions that lead to the lack of peace in the world and in our regions and neighborhoods (where too many people prefer uniformity rather than diversity)
10/6/2011 1:55 pm (et) Fr. Gardiner: you're both correct, in my estimation; the 'trick' is to keep both in tension -- celebrating differences and recognizing the larger context and the ways we deal with both.
10/6/2011 1:55 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: now that sounds odd: to embrace diversity while downplaying our differences
10/6/2011 1:57 pm (et) Moderator: Alright everyone, we have just a couple of minutes left, so please begin wrappping up those final thoughts.
10/6/2011 1:57 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: but perhaps downplaying difference is the way to embrace diversity. diversity 'is the spice of life' - it makes life more interesting
10/6/2011 1:58 pm (et) Fr. Gardiner: it's no secret that religion has done more than it's share to foment discord, even violence. Fr. Leo Lefebure, who teaches at Georgetown, has a great book on this subject. .
10/6/2011 1:58 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: if differences can help up enhance each others' life through cooperation rather than competition, that might be the goal
10/6/2011 1:59 pm (et) Fr. Gardiner: what's time together like this without a commercial? hope to see you on Sunday, October 16th, 3:00 to 4:30 PM at the Franciscan Monastery of the Holy Land, 14th and Quincy Streets, NE. thanks foryour interest and participation. God bless!
10/6/2011 1:59 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: I mean diversity and relation between diversity is the very foundation of life, at least as a Christian with the basis being the Trinity - three in one
10/6/2011 2:00 pm (et) Moderator: Thank you for your participation today. Next week our chat is a ‘Sikhism and Interreligious Dialogue’ with Mr. Rajwant Singh, Sikh member of IFC’s Board. We hope to see you there! If you would like to contact or guest, please contact me at rebeccac@ifcmw.org.
10/6/2011 2:00 pm (et) Moderator: Also, we welcome your feedback! Any comments will be helpful. If you have any suggestion please feel free to email me at rebeccac@ifcmw.org.
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