In the wake of the horrific events that took place Friday, July 20th in Aurora, Colorado, communities of all faith traditions have come together to support one another and try to make sense of this act of violence. An array of actions and explanations have been put forth from every perspective, encouraging us this week to explore:
What can we learn from the Colorado massacre, and what can we as faith communities do to explain, respond, and prevent such tragedies?
Apart from "modern life," the argument has been made that the U.S.'s secular precedent of separation of church and state has led to a loss of grounding in society, giving rise to these actions.
Is there a political or spiritual solution to these actions? Is it a manner of ministering to those who can take these terrible actions, or rather removing the tools provided by these "anti-life" policies, i.e. abortion, the death penalty, gun control?
Just as a reminder, whether you agree or disagree, we welcome your comments and questions in a respectful manner. Please no profane or offensive remarks. Try to refrain from stereotyping and remember that values and practices are not the same. Also, keep in mind that national, cultural, and political differences may not always be the same as religious differences.
We are joined by Father Avelino Gonzalez from St. Joseph Parish on Capitol Hill, to offer his perspective from a Catholic tradition. Any questions for Father Avelino can be posted up until 5:00 PM on Friday, July 27th, and his responses will will be posted the following week on Monday, July 30th! Don't miss this opportunity!
We are shaking it up this week folks! Due to scheduling conflicts, instead of having a single online dialogue at 7:30pm, we will be having a continuous dialogue here on our blog!
This article explores the power of stories, but our faith leaders already new that! What is your favorite religiously or spiritually inspired story, either from a holy text or a personal experience? What does this story mean to you and how does it inform your faith?
Whether you agree of disagree,
we welcome your comments and questions in a respectful manner. Please no
profane or offensive remarks. Try to refrain from stereotyping and remember that values and practices are not the
same. Also, keep in mind that national and cultural differences may not always be the same as religious
differences.
Think about the community and shared experiences we can all gain, across faiths, through the sharing of our stories! Please post!
Thank you to all of those who participated in last night's online dialogue on Faith and Service! We were joined by Michael Turner from the local Baha'i community in our exploration of Should life be lived for ourselves and/or in the service of others? How does this affect the priorities in your daily life? What drives you to do good for others?
Check out the insightful video below and take a look through the transcript. Let's keep the conversation alive with comments or questions that can be answered by Michael Turner!
hp8014a said:logs in on 7/11/2012 7:05 pm (et). Michael Turner: logs
in on 7/11/2012 7:11 pm (et). Kathleen B said:logs in on 7/11/2012 7:17 pm (et). jdiggs said: logs in on 7/11/2012 7:19 pm (et). Moderator:
Welcome to IFC's Moderated Chat Room! This is Elora from InterFaith Conference (IFC)
and I will be your moderator this evening. As this is still new, let me explain
how this will work. On the right you should see a video. Please click the play
button (the sideways triangle) to begin playing the video and to get our
conversation going. If you have a comment and/or question, type your message in
the box in the bottom left hand corner of the screen and click the "submit
to moderator" button. This will send the message on to me for approval,
and then I will post it to everyone where you will see it appear in the chat
room. And that's it! Are you ready for a great dialogue!? As always I would like to
remind you of the rules of our engagement. This is a respectful place where we
try to understand what experiences others have, what things others believe, and
how they try to live out what seems spiritual truth to them. Whether you agree
of disagree, we welcome your comments and questions in a respectful manner.
Please no profane or offensive remarks, they will not be posted. Try to refrain
from stereotyping and remember that values and practices are not the same and
that they have different levels of importance to each group. Additionally, it
is important to remember that national and cultural differences may not always
be the same as religious differences. I am here to make this a pleasant and
educational experience for all, so enjoy and remember there are no stupid
questions, but there can be hostile ones! Moderator:
Tonight our topic is Faith and Service. Should life be lived for ourselves
and/or in the service of others? How does this affect the priorities in your
daily life? What drives you to do good for others? Our guest this evening to
guide us in exploring these questions is Michael Turner, a leader in the local
Baha'i community. You can now begin posting and viewing the beginning
comments on the right. As you participate please feel free to send your
questions and comments (We Want Your Comments!!!) Also, the video will remain
within the sidebar, so feel free to return to it as you wish. Our chat window
automatically refreshes to keep the flow going, but if you wish to view the
whole of the conversation just hit the archive button at the bottom of the
page. Let the dialogue begin! Kathleen B said: The notion of service is worship resonates. Gandhi said be the
change you want to see in the world Michael Turner:
Yet service seems to have limited appeal for most people these days. People are
more respected for popularity or wealth, rather than the benefits they have
done for other human beings. Kathleen B said: That is often the case. I also think many people have to work
so hard to cover the basic needs of food, shelter and clothing that it leaves
little time or energy for service beyond that. Michael Turner: If
we do not use our limited lifespan in service, we have wasted our lives. Our
purpose is service, whether we are aware of it or not. Kathleen B said: I agree. Michael Turner:
Yet so much of what we do is capable of more than one explanation. If I am a
farmer growing food, I may be focussing on bringing in a bumper crop to
establish an opulent life style, or I can be feeling, in my heart that I am
feeding humanity. My actions are the same, but my viewpoint is different. Kathleen B said: Intensions are powerful. Is anyone else on the chat - please
speak up Eric A. said:logs in on 7/11/2012 7:44 pm (et). Moderator:
Another issue is that because popularity and wealth are more valued in our
society then people use service as a means of obtaining it rather than with the
intention of helping others Eric A. said: Michael do you have any ideas or suggestions about how this can
be overcome? Michael Turner:
Or service can even be regarded as a punishment. Community service is regarded
by some as dishonorable, since misbehaving adults are required to do it. Michael Turner:
We need a change in fashion, so that wealth is only valued for the service it
enables, rather than opulence enabled. Nanik said:logs in on 7/11/2012 7:48 pm (et). Michael Turner:
In ancient Rome, which was not an ideal culture, rich men displayed their
wealth by preforming public services. They built a bridge or a road, or
provided bread for the poor, or put on gladiatorial games. Of course, this also
served political ambition. Nanik said: Fundamental Question is why serve? Eric A. said: Right, I think that is always the challenge. I think there may be
multiple reasons why people serve, some of them more selfish than others, but
it also depends on which is the strongest intention. Eric A. said: It reminds me somewhat of the U.S.'s use of aid for its own
political purposes. Eric A. said: But does that diminish the service it provides? Michael Turner: I
recall reading that Andrew Carnegie said that the man who dies wealthy dies too
soon. If I am wealthy, I must see myself as unfulfilled if I have not put my
good fortune to work for others. Michael Turner:
If a rich man funds a charity that benefits me, I may wonder about the reason,
and if I determine that a selfish motive is served then I feel less served than
taken advantage of. Nanik said: More basic question is who am I? If I and you are linked to the
same source then it makes sense to serve and help our fellow men, if not then
service has no basis Michael Turner:
Nanik is right. If the server does not see the served as partaking of the same
humanity, as part of the same community, then the value of the service is
reduced or negated. Eric A. said: This reminds me another saying, that if men were truly to
practice selfishness then they would give to others because giving to others
also benefits yourself Eric A. said: But people struggle with accepting that they have enough and that
they can give even a small percent to others, because when people are in the
mindset that they themselves do not have enough then they are not likely to be
inclined to give to others. Michael Turner:
There is not doubt that we derive satisfaction and pleasure from helping
others. I still think it is different when we have some ulterior motive. Michael Turner:
There are poor people who are generous with the little they have, and rich
people who insist that they do not yet have enough to allow them to be
generous. Nanik said: Giving doesn't mean any material loss. Giving can be love, respect
which are the most orecious comodities. Moreover, what goes around comes around
with interest. Eric A. said: I was struck in watching the video about the various types of
service there are and the various things that you can give Eric A. said: For example, you can give your time, material goods, your talents
like music, or your knowledge, or even your laughter Michael Turner:
Giving should form a connection , or better, acknowledge an existing
connection, yet with the wrong motivation can lead to resentment. Michael Turner:
Can we each, when we offer a service to somebody, express in our attitude that,
today it is my turn to serve you. Tomorrow it may be your turn to serve me or
someone else. Eric A. said: I like that idea of a connection. Too often the power of love and
respect is downplayed over quantifiable things like science and money, but it
is connecting with those that have little that can open your own eyes to the
power of these things, because those who have little are fully aware of the
power of things other than money and material goods Nanik said: Giving should be with love and with the feeling of superiority.
Infact, we are in a position to give because someone (Higher Power) is giving
us ms3423 said:logs in on 7/11/2012 8:10 pm (et). Nanik said: sorry, not with the feeling of superiority Michael Turner:
It is the feeling of service, true service, proceeding from a sense of
obligation, that is what is really of value, rather than whatever material
component may be involved. ms3423 said:logs off on 7/11/2012 8:12 pm (et). Michael Turner:
God has given me a duty to serve my fellow servants, and I am grateful that I
am able to render you some small service as a token of the love I feel for God
and humanity. Something like that, perhaps? Eric A. said: Is there a selfishness or difference in servicing because you
feel it will put you in a better light in the eyes of a greater being? Michael Turner:
Good question. If I am smug because I think I have scored points because of my
service, then I think it is the same as if I had funded a gladiatorial game to
win an election. Not real service at all. Michael Turner:
Humility is pleasing in a giver. Kathleen B said: I think I can serve others with humility and know it is also
in my highest good to do so. Michael Turner:
If I love someone, I will do things for that person, always looking to the next
service, and never thinking, There, I've done enough. Eric A. said: I think it also goes back to the idea that you must serve others
to find the most fulfillment in life, which is what I believe a higher being
wants us all to achieve, and so your service benefits not only that other
person, but yourself and the higher being as well Michael Turner:
Service becomes a continuum in which we partake, since, as has been already
said, the services we provide are the result of generosity that we have
received. Kathleen B said: As we sow so shall we reap. Kathleen B said: Thank you, Michael and Moderator for initiating this
discussion. Moderator:
Thank you for your participation! Michael Turner:
Can it be a part of a more up-to-date business model that I must care for the
people I hope will be my customers and the people who will do work in my
business, so that what goes around comes around in a way that is of some
satisfaction. Eric A. said: I also liked the quotation about how service can take any form. I
think people always think of service as something you do extra outside of your daily life and
for those who are materially poor, but simply living out your life to the
fullest doing the most that you can for everyone you meet is real service Moderator:
We have about two minutes left. Please submit any final comments at this time. Michael Turner:
There may be some professions that seeing the potential for service may be more
difficult. Eric A. said: This is true. Moderator:
If you would like to be added to the listserv for further information about
upcoming chats, please email me at elora.kilian.interfaith@gmail.com. Also
follow us on Twitter and Facebook for more updates!. I am committed to making
these chats the best that they can be so please send me any comments on what
worked, what didn't work, and what I could do to make the chats better. Michael Turner:
Thank you, for your thinking. Moderator:
Thank you everyone for your participation in this first chat of the summer! I
encourage you to spread the impact of this dialogue by sharing the knowledge
you have gained with those around you! Moderator:
Have a good night, and we will 'see' you next week!
Here are some conclusions we came to:
Service
benefits all: assists the person who is served, brings fulfillment to the
person who is serving, and pleases a higher being.
Service
functions as a circle with our ability to serve others being a result of the
generosity and blessing we have received, and by continuing to give we will
only continue to receive.
Service does
not have to be seen as a sacrifice, but rather as something we benefit from
spiritually.
The intension
behind service is very important. There
may be multiple benefits and reasons behind an action, but which one of these that has
the greatest importance will define if others are being served or taken
advantage of.
There are
many ways to serve. Service does not
have to be something that is done outside of your daily life and provided only
to those who are materially less well off.
Rather, living your life to the fullest potential and helping all of
those in whatever way you can, is also service.
There are
many things you can give. You can give
your material things, you can give your time, you can give your talent, you can
give your knowledge, and you can also give your personality through a friendly
smile or laughter.
Popularity
and wealth have greater value in our society than service. For example, community service is often used
as punishment for crimes.
Service can often
not be given until people find contentment with what they already have. Unless you feel you have enough, then you cannot
see the things you have to give.
Thank you to everyone who participated in last night's chat on Religion and the Environment! We explored how people of faith can respond to climate change and other environmental challenges in their own lives and in their congregations, and what beliefs about humans' relationship to the earth motivate these actions.
Joelle Novey:logs in on 6/27/2012 7:18 pm (et). azipl said:logs in on 6/27/2012 7:20 pm (et). Hengist said:logs in on 6/27/2012 7:20 pm (et). Moderator: Welcome to IFC’s Moderated Chat Room! This is Elora from InterFaith Conference (IFC) and I will be your moderator this evening. As this is still new, let me explain how this will work. On the right you should see a video. Please click the play button (the sideways triangle) to begin playing the video and to get our conversation going. If you have a comment and/or question, type your message in the box in the bottom left hand corner of the screen and click the "submit to moderator" button. This will send the message on to me for approval, and then I will post it to everyone where you will see it appear in the chat room. Moderator: As always I would like to remind you of the rules of our engagement. This is a respectful place where we try to understand what experiences others have, what things others believe, and how they try to live out what seems spiritual truth to them. Whether you agree of disagree, we welcome your comments and questions in a respectful manner. Please no profane or offensive remarks, they will not be posted. Try to refrain from stereotyping and remember that values and practices are not the same and that they have different levels of importance to each group. Additionally, it is important to remember that national and cultural differences may not always be the same as religious differences. I am here to make this a pleasant and educational experience for all, so enjoy and remember there are no stupid questions, but there can be hostile ones! Moderator: Tonight our topic is religion and the environment. How can people of faith respond to climate change and other environmental challenges in their own lives and in their congregations? What beliefs about human's relationship to the earth motivate these actions? Our quest this evening to guide us in exploring these questions is Joelle Novey, director of Interfaith Power and Light. Moderator: You can now begin posting and viewing the beginning comments on the right. As you participate please feel free to send your questions and comments (We Want Your Comments!!!) Also, the video will remain within the sidebar, so feel free to return to it as you wish. Our chat window automatically refreshes to keep the flow going, but if you wish to view the whole of the conversation just hit the archive button at the bottom of the page. Let the dialogue begin! Hengist said: Every religion tries to get people to extend their area of concern from Me, here and now, to other people in more distant places and times. Another teaching is to show respect for God by respecting the gifts we have been given, including this planet. Joelle Novey: Absolutely. Climate change challenges us to see the ways we are connected to other people and to the natural world, and that is something that our religious traditions can help us do. guest 234 said:logs in on 6/27/2012 7:34 pm (et). guest 234 said: How can we increase the importance of being respectful to the environment in the religious sphere? It seems as if it is always other aspects that are being stressed. Hengist said: Religion should also encourage taking a longer view, since we are (hopefully) more responsible for the needs of our children and grandchildren. Joelle Novey: Right. Politicians and businesspeople make their decisions on a very short timeframe. Religion is used to taking the long view. Joelle Novey: As for how we can increase the importance of environmental concerns in religious communities, that's the question we're asking every day at Interfaith Power & Light. Hengist said: It is point of view, in a nutshell. Religion is not religion unless it forces us to adapt our point of view. Joelle Novey: I think when these changes are happening in religious communities, it's because a person or people in the congregation took on the long, patient work of doing education and proposing changes in the community. Joelle Novey: And we try to be a resource for those congregational green leaders. Joelle Novey: I'm guessing most folks have had a chance to watch the video now. Any thoughts or reactions? What in that was most striking to you? Joelle Novey: Or, are there any on the chat that have had successes or challenges in engaging your own religious communities in environmental action? Hengist said: I like connecting to the Bible. We have to recognize that back then, consumption was not developed to (modern) levels. Still, a material versus a spiritual outlook. weekendwarrior: logs in on 6/27/2012 7:47 pm (et). Joelle Novey: Yes, I think our scriptures are a resource in confronting climate change. BUT -- nothing like this has ever happened before. Hengist said: Is what we need to see in our current situation. Joelle Novey: And we have to acknowledge that those scriptures were written by people who could not imaginge a world in which human beings had become the driving force behind the world's climate. Joelle Novey: I sometimes say, the Noah story can help. But who are we in that story? Joelle Novey: We are both Noah and the flood. Joelle Novey: So we can use our spiritual resources but we have to acknowledge where they leave us off short. Hengist said: Or the amount of resources that 7 billion people can consume. Still, both Judaism and Islam have their desert historical background, where resource control and development are critical. Hengist said: There is a recognition that trees make the difference between desert and habitable land. Joelle Novey: Yes. The people who originated Judaism and Islam were very very aware of their dependence on a predictable cycle of seasons. Of rain at the right times, for example. Joelle Novey: There's a lot of richness when religious communities go back and encounter the engagement with the natural world in their own holy texts! Joelle Novey: That can be the beginning of a community starting to understand that they have to engage with environmental issues if they want to live out their own faith tradition most fully. LynnK said: Do you know of any examples of stories or teachings from other traditions or holy texts? Joelle Novey: Well, there is a beautiful story about the prophet Muhammad (from the Muslim tradition) Joelle Novey: that he used to preach outdoors, using a tree as his podium Joelle Novey: and then his followers built him a sanctuary so that he could preach indoors Joelle Novey: and the tree wept -- it missed hearing the holy words parvez said:logs in on 6/27/2012 7:56 pm (et). Joelle Novey: I think that kind of story can help a community think about the ways we've become disconnected from the natural world. Hengist said: We learn to recognize that, past and present, we have an obligation to respond to the needs of the 'season', the time for every purpose. Joelle Novey: Yes. In the Jewish legal tradition, there is a principle that you have to put a "parapet" on your roof ... Joelle Novey: a little guardrail so that no one will fall off and hurt themselves Joelle Novey: it's a teaching to take precautions against possible danger Joelle Novey: and to take responsibility for the ways someone might get hurt because of your actions Joelle Novey: Lots of parrallels to the climate problem. Joelle Novey: I know some of those in Christian traditions talk about Jesus as the "Master Gardener" Joelle Novey: and how many of his teachings take place outdoors, in nature Joelle Novey: But Lynn, I really do believe that every religious tradition has ways to connect to this issue, because ALL of our ancestors were more deeply rooted in the natural world than many of us have become. Joelle Novey: It's very much about the religious communities *returning* to something very ancient, rather than striking out into something newfangled and untraditional. Hengist said: There are also traditions that speak of the prophets of God as being the trees that mark the difference between the settled and the wilderness of danger where people are not to go. Joelle Novey: Can you tell us more about that? What traditions? LynnK said: I often think that our world has become too consumed with the forces that are quantifiable and those that are more qualitative have lost their value in society...and this has disconnected us from the natural forces of nature that are equally as important Joelle Novey: Well, I think religious communities (when they're working) are countercultural, in reminding us that what's most important is spiritual rather than material. HalJordan : logs in on 6/27/2012 8:04 pm (et). Hengist said: I understand that the tree at the end of the road is a metaphor for the Prophet in Islam and has continued into the Baha'i tradition. It was the custom to plant a tree on the road going out of a town to mark the city limits. Implied is that we have to accept limits to our activity. Joelle Novey: That's lovely. Joelle Novey: In Judaism, the Torah is described as a "tree of life." Joelle Novey: Do any of the folks on the chat have any experiences or challenges with engaging your religious communities in green actions or activities? LynnK said: I haven't but I am curious, has Interfaith Power & Light faced any difficulties in influencing the political sphere given the U.S.'s tradition of separation of church and state? Hengist said: In my experience, no matter what size the community, there is always something that can be done to emphasize our responsibility for our environment. Even something relatively trivial like returning shopping carts to their respective markets to make the neighborhood a little less trashed. Joelle Novey: Great question, Lynn. Joelle Novey: We invite people in congregations to get involved in environmental advocacy, and to cite the religious reasons why they are doing so. Joelle Novey: But it's not any kind of challenge to the separation of church and state. Joelle Novey: For example, the Environmental Protection Agency recently issued the first ever limits on industrial carbon pollution from power plants. Joelle Novey: And gave a period of time when they would accept comments from the public about their proposal. Joelle Novey: So we organized congregations all over our area to collect postcards after services ... Joelle Novey: saying, "as a religious person, I am concerned about climate change and support limiting industrial carbon pollution." Hengist said: Our power is to motivate the people. When the people are motivated, the leaders will catch on. Trying to involve leaders can involve political ramifications that can obstruct progress. Joelle Novey: Those were only a few of 2.2 MILLION comments from Americans in support of those new limits. Joelle Novey: So we see our role as engaging and empowering those who already attend religious communities to weigh in and participate. Joelle Novey: There's no pressure on anyone who is not religious or not part of a congregation to participate in that way. And there's no expectation that the government itself will be explicitly religious. Joelle Novey: We're just engaging this segment of our population to find their voice on this issue. Does that make sense? LynnK said: Yes it does, thank you! Hengist said: Some people can find they voice mor easily if they have connected the issue to their core beliefs.Joelle Novey: Absolutely, Hengist. I believe that having a conversation about climate change in a congregation is one of the best places in the world to have that conversation. Joelle Novey: People listen differently in church (or their religious community). Joelle Novey: They listen with their "moral ears." LynnK said: That is true, everyone is motivated and inspired differently and for some religion is the way they connect with things most Hengist said: And they are prepared for a different viewpoint than they might have in their normal day by day activities. Joelle Novey: Right, in their congregations they are hear environmental problems as a matter of right and wrong, and doing right by their neighbors and living in a holy way. Joelle Novey: And, people are used to their congregations challenging them to believe they can change. Joelle Novey: And taking climate seriously means having to consider needing to change. Joelle Novey: Likewise, people already greive and celebrate in their congregations. And sometimes the hard emotions that come along with taking climate change seriously go unacknowledged in other settings. Joelle Novey: But in a religious setting, it's okay for people to say: I'm scared. or I'm sad. Hengist said: In a religious venue, people are ready to contemplate the extreme consequences of wrong action or inaction. Joelle Novey: Yes, and they *hear* the climate problem as a matter of moral responsibility. In this country, the climate problem has become incredibly politicized. Joelle Novey: So working in religious communities is a way of re-framing the conversation about right and wrong and human responsibility. Hengist said: That may be our biggest challenge, depoliticizing the climate problem. Joelle Novey: Absolutely. I think the more people are introduced to this topic through their congregations, the more we help to address that. LynnK said: I know in Brazil there is a landless peasant movement that sites the law influenced by Catholic tradition that people who own land must use it for production and they use this to gain some land redistribution from those holding large spaces of to smaller plots for small scale farming. I think this is a positive example of religion giving people a voice for a positive environmental action politically. Joelle Novey: Yes. I think there are resources in our traditions for responding to the problems we face. Hengist said: Could we instill the value of restoring the planet to something like the condition in which we received it? There are parables about handling trusts in the new testament. Moderator: We are just about out of time! I will give Joelle a chance to respond to this final question. Joelle Novey: Well, I think leaving the world in the same condition we found it in is a good thing to aspire to; but that's probably not possible anymore. Joelle Novey: But I think being mindful of limiting the damage, and helping each other and future generations adapt and cope, are all worthwhile. Joelle Novey: It's been a pleasure to chat with everyone! If you don't already, please email joelle@gwipl.org to be added to our mailing list. Joelle Novey: You can also follow us on twitter @gwipl, and like us on facebook/gwipl Hengist said: Thank you! Joelle Novey: Thank you! Moderator: Yes, thank you everyone for your participation in this first chat of the summer! I encourage you to spread the impact of this dialogue by sharing the knowledge you have gained with those around you! Moderator: If you would like to be added to the listserv for further information about upcoming chats, please email me at elora.kilian.interfaith@gmail.com. Also, I am committed to making these chats the best that they can be so please send me any comments on what worked, what didn’t work, and what I could do to make the chats better. One final announcement: Because next Wednesday is the fourth of July, the chat will be taking place on Thursday at 7:30pm. The topic has not been decided but follow IFC on Facebook and Twitter or check our website for further updates! Have a good night and we will ‘see’ you next week!
Some basic conclusions we came to were:
Religious congregations are a good place to start in addressing climate change because it is a setting that has historically challenged people to change their perspectives and actions and has typically taken the long-term view.
Change often comes through the dedication of one person or group, who then educate the community, who then inform our leaders of what they want to see done. Interfaith Power and Light is looking to provide resources for these congregations that are trying to inform our leaders.
Nearly all religious traditions offer some way to connect to the environmental issue because ALL of our ancestors were more deeply connected to nature than we have become today.
Looking back at holy texts and what they tell us about connecting to the environment can help us understand how living an environmentally conscious lifestyle can help us live out our faith more fully.
Our ancestors and holy texts can only offer us so much, however, because they never could have imagined a world where humans have such significant control over the earth.
12/22/2011 12:40 pm (et) Moderator: logs in on 12/22/2011 12:40 pm (et). 12/22/2011 12:52 pm (et) Susan: private message to Moderator:logs in on 12/22/2011 12:52 pm (et). 12/22/2011 12:55 pm (et) Farhanahz Ellis: logs in on 12/22/2011 12:55 pm (et). 12/22/2011 1:00 pm (et) Moderator: Welcome! This is Rebecca from the InterFaith Conference (IFC) and I will be your moderator. Let me explain how this will work. On the right, you will see a video playing of our current topic to get the conversation going. If you have a comment and/or question send it along to me, the moderator. As long as I deem it appropriate, the comment will be posted to everyone and the speaker will have the opportunity to answer your question. 12/22/2011 1:01 pm (et) Moderator: Today, our topic is ‘Women in Islam’ with Ms. Farhanahz Ellis, Interfaith and Outreach Director at All Dulles Area Muslim Society (ADAMS) and Chaplain at George Mason University 12/22/2011 1:01 pm (et) Moderator: As always, I would like to remind you of the rules of our engagement. This is a respectful place where we come together to learn more about the religions of the world. Whether you agree or disagree, we welcome your comments and questions that are posed in a respectful manner. Please no profane or offensive remarks, they will not be posted. Also, this is a place of learning, so please refrain from ‘soapboxing.’ If there are any issues or questions about this, they can be submitted along with the comments pertaining to our topic. I am here to make this a pleasant and educational experience for all, so enjoy and remember there are no stupid questions, just hostile ones! 12/22/2011 1:02 pm (et) Moderator: You can now view the beginning comments on the right. As you listen, please feel free to start sending questions or comments (YES, we want your comments). Also, the video will remain within the sidebar, so feel free to return to it as you wish. Our chat window automatically refreshes to keep the flow going, but if you wish to view the whole of the conversation, just hit the archive button. And lastly, PLEASE do not use double quotes as it leads to some issues. 12/22/2011 1:04 pm (et) ELYAA: private message to Moderator:logs in on 12/22/2011 1:04 pm (et). 12/22/2011 1:05 pm (et) Clark Lobenstine: logs in on 12/22/2011 1:05 pm (et). 12/22/2011 1:11 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: Muslims believe the story of Adam and Eve too, correct? It is a large part of Catholic thinking on women, and anthropology in general, is there the same interest in that story as a basis? 12/22/2011 1:12 pm (et) Farhanahz Ellis: Yes, the story of Father Adam and Mother Eve are part of Islam. 12/22/2011 1:13 pm (et) Farhanahz Ellis: The main difference is that in the Islamic narrative, there's no original sin. 12/22/2011 1:14 pm (et) Farhanahz Ellis: And it is the basis of the creation of humanity. 12/22/2011 1:17 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: So Catholic thought, especially since John Paul II, has looked to the creation as a source of man and woman's complementarity, is there some similar scholarship in Islam? 12/22/2011 1:17 pm (et) Clark Lobenstine: Good job, Farhanahz! 12/22/2011 1:18 pm (et) Farhanahz Ellis: Yes, Susan. In Islam male and female are not superior or inferior one to the other. We are not even the same. We're complimentary. 12/22/2011 1:18 pm (et) Clark Lobenstine: Why do you thinkn that so many of us have views of women in Islam? 12/22/2011 1:19 pm (et) Clark Lobenstine: that is negative views! 12/22/2011 1:20 pm (et) Moderator: ELYAA said: Men are protectors and maintainers of women because Allah has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend to support them from their means.) 12/22/2011 1:20 pm (et) Farhanahz Ellis: Perhaps those views come from assumptions that have a possible base in culture, but not in the religion itself. 12/22/2011 1:20 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: Well, why hijab? I have always wondered why that is a sign of modesty 12/22/2011 1:21 pm (et) Clark Lobenstine: logs in on 12/22/2011 1:21 pm (et). 12/22/2011 1:21 pm (et) Farhanahz Ellis: With that quote, I have always wondered why it says "one of them to excel the other" and is not more especific. 12/22/2011 1:23 pm (et) Farhanahz Ellis: People forget the culture at the time of the revelation. Perhaps we can get together in another occassion and talk about it a little bit more. 12/22/2011 1:23 pm (et) Clark Lobenstine: I'd say it is because we have the human tendency to choose the worst examples when we want to put down someone or some thing and the best examples when we want to lift somebody or something up! 12/22/2011 1:24 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: And what do you say to the people who do say that it is Islam? I mean it seems that those countries that do oppress women point to Islam, they say 'it's our religion'. 12/22/2011 1:24 pm (et) Moderator: ELYAA said: Suzan, Have you ever seen Virgin Mary in a movie without headscarf? 12/22/2011 1:24 pm (et) Clark Lobenstine: But that may be a chicken and egg issue, because it does not answer why so many want to see Islam in a negative light. 12/22/2011 1:24 pm (et) Farhanahz Ellis: There are quite a lot of Muslim women who don't wear the veil; but of course we'll never know because we can't identify them. 12/22/2011 1:25 pm (et) Moderator: ELYAA said: or any pictures for her 12/22/2011 1:25 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: That is very true, and for a long period of history it was customary for women to cover their heads in Church as well, I believe that really changed with Vatican II.... 12/22/2011 1:25 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: I guess that is also a cultural misunderstanding. 12/22/2011 1:26 pm (et) Farhanahz Ellis: I wonder if the way people hold to that missunderstanding is becuase at some level is comfortable for them. 12/22/2011 1:27 pm (et) Farhanahz Ellis: Oops, I meant "because". 12/22/2011 1:27 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: I think it is easier, it takes effort to put oneself in another's shoes. 12/22/2011 1:28 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: But still, how do you suggest changing views of women in Islam? 12/22/2011 1:28 pm (et) Farhanahz Ellis: Knowledge can cure "almost" everything. 12/22/2011 1:29 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: And I guess a ringing question in the back of my mind is have you seen the new TV show 'All-American Muslim'? And if so, what do think? Is that giving people knowledge? 12/22/2011 1:29 pm (et) Farhanahz Ellis: The people that yells and rants against Islam the most, surely are the ones that have never taken the time to really meet a Muslim. 12/22/2011 1:29 pm (et) Moderator: ELYAA said: yes i agree 12/22/2011 1:29 pm (et) Moderator: ELYAA said: yes i agree , we need knowledge 12/22/2011 1:30 pm (et) Farhanahz Ellis: First, a disclaimer: Watched the first episode and did not like it. With that been said. We Muslims run the whole gamuth and the show proves that to certain extent. 12/22/2011 1:31 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: Elyaa, are you also a Muslim? What do you think? 12/22/2011 1:33 pm (et) Moderator: ELYAA said: Yes, i am, do you mean abut All American Muslim show? 12/22/2011 1:34 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: Yes, they seem to address stereotypes, so I was wondering if you felt they did a good job of that? 12/22/2011 1:34 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: Farhanahz, you seem to hold a convincing position both as a Director at ADAMS and a Chaplain at George Mason, are people surprised when they meet you? 12/22/2011 1:34 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: Also, breaking down stereoypes. 12/22/2011 1:34 pm (et) Farhanahz Ellis: Oh God, yes they are, LOL 12/22/2011 1:35 pm (et) Farhanahz Ellis: The first comment I hear is "But you don't look like a Muslim" 12/22/2011 1:35 pm (et) Moderator: ELYAA said: I have some observations, but by the end, there is some Benefits 12/22/2011 1:36 pm (et) Farhanahz Ellis: Perhaps because a 6 feet, assertive, Black, Hispanic, educated, opinionated woman is not the "usual" figure, 12/22/2011 1:36 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: I would love to them, Elyaa, we all think we are being so educated watching these shows, but it is great to hear an 'inside' perspective. 12/22/2011 1:37 pm (et) Moderator: ELYAA said: Oh , that was an ayah from the holy Quran 12/22/2011 1:38 pm (et) Moderator: ELYAA said: [4:34] from the Holy Quran 12/22/2011 1:39 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: Ahhh, I am sorry, I have had some classes on Islam, but am no great scholar! 12/22/2011 1:39 pm (et) Farhanahz Ellis: Don't worry, Susan. Neither am I. 12/22/2011 1:40 pm (et) Moderator: ELYAA said: That's ok,....This verse emphasizes that the financial and moral responsibilities of a household is the husband's responsibility 12/22/2011 1:41 pm (et) Moderator: ELYAA said: Many people missunderstand it 12/22/2011 1:41 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: Do either of you ever feel somehow offended by those people who do use Islam as a reason to oppress women? 12/22/2011 1:42 pm (et) Farhanahz Ellis: I don't know if offended is the word I would use. 12/22/2011 1:43 pm (et) Farhanahz Ellis: I feel sorry if they use that excuse out of ignorance. and scared if out of trickery. Scared because when their moment to pay for it comes, and it will surely come, it won't be pretty! 12/22/2011 1:44 pm (et) Farhanahz Ellis: No human being has the right to abuse any creation of God. And that's enough for me! 12/22/2011 1:44 pm (et) Moderator: ELYAA said: I feel sorry for them, because they did not follow the Sunnah of the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him did not learn anything from it 12/22/2011 1:44 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: Or if someone insinuates that Islam is an oppressive force? I mean, there are plenty of people who think the Catholic Church is unfair to women because of pro-life issues and that they can't be priests, and sometimes it is just exhausting trying to really figure it all out. 12/22/2011 1:46 pm (et) Farhanahz Ellis: The people that presents those arguments to me, are bound to have a heck of a time. I know what I talk about and on top of that I'm a lawyer. 12/22/2011 1:46 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: And not only that, but it takes a strong viewpoint to be able to resist those arguments, what about children who have to hear these things? 12/22/2011 1:46 pm (et) Farhanahz Ellis: So if you are not more than well prepare for the argument, I rather you sit down! 12/22/2011 1:46 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: Noted: don't argue with Farhanahz 12/22/2011 1:47 pm (et) Farhanahz Ellis: ROTFLMHO 12/22/2011 1:48 pm (et) Farhanahz Ellis: If you want to oppress somebody, even the phone book will help if you twist it. 12/22/2011 1:50 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: Why do think it has fallen on women, though? You mention cultural reasons, but are there places in scripture or in the oral tradition that contribute if read in a specific light 12/22/2011 1:51 pm (et) Farhanahz Ellis: And that's the problem. When we use the scripture isolated of the rest of the revelation and without the history surrounding it. 12/22/2011 1:52 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: Like the portion Elyaa mentioned, is that misunderstood as a tool to oppress women? 12/22/2011 1:52 pm (et) Farhanahz Ellis: One of few. 12/22/2011 1:53 pm (et) Clark Lobenstine: Sorry its so slow today! Usually its busier than this. And its a 'hot' topic, too! Too close to Christmas and other winter holidays, I think. 12/22/2011 1:53 pm (et) Farhanahz Ellis: Actually, I've like the "cozy" environment just the few of us. 12/22/2011 1:53 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: Well, I got my questions answered and enjoyed it, so thank you for having it! 12/22/2011 1:54 pm (et) Farhanahz Ellis: Thank you for participating and thank you Elyaa too. 12/22/2011 1:54 pm (et) Farhanahz Ellis: And to the IFC and Rebecca and Clark. 12/22/2011 1:55 pm (et) Moderator: ELYAA said: Yes i agree, The Holy Quran come to support women in many many ayah 12/22/2011 1:55 pm (et) Moderator: ELYAA said: Thank for you too 12/22/2011 1:55 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: I have one last question, you mentioned that education of children is a woman's place, how do you go about ensuring that children are well aware of the true place of women in Islam? 12/22/2011 1:56 pm (et) Farhanahz Ellis: By educating our Sisters first. You can't demand your rights if you don't know them. You can't share knowledge if you don't have it. 12/22/2011 1:57 pm (et) Moderator: We have just a couple of minutes remaining, so please finish any last comments. 12/22/2011 1:58 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: Perhaps, Farhanahz and Elyaa, you could point us to a specific ayah supporting women to end this chat on a wonderful note. 12/22/2011 2:00 pm (et) Farhanahz Ellis: I love the saying of Prophet Muhammed where he says that "Paradise is at the feet of the mother". Perhaps because I'm a Mum? 12/22/2011 2:00 pm (et) Moderator: ELYAA said: Qur'an 3:195 I shall not lose sight of the labor of any of you who labors in My way, be it man or woman; each of you is equal to the other. 12/22/2011 2:00 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: Those are beautiful, thank you. 12/22/2011 2:00 pm (et) Moderator: Thank you for your participation today. If you would like to contact or guest, please contact me at rebeccac@ifcmw.org. Also, this is a new effort on our part so we welcome your feedback! Any comments will be helpful. If you have any suggestion please feel free to email me. 12/22/2011 2:01 pm (et) Moderator: This moderated chat room is just one example of the many programs which the InterFaith Conference is doing. If you are able and willing to financially support the InterFaith Conference’s vital year-round work, please donate now using the donate button on our website – www.ifcmw.org. You can also find out more about us and sign up for our bi-monthly newsletter. 12/22/2011 2:01 pm (et) Moderator: After this chat, the chatroom will be on hiatus until the first week in February, when a new moderator will be taking over. Keep your eyes on IFC’s website, www.ifcmw.org, for more information on the return. Happy Holidays! 12/22/2011 2:01 pm (et) Moderator: ELYAA said: Qur'an 2:226 And for women are rights over men similar to those of men over women.
