Wednesday, April 27, 2011

The Baha'i Faith and Interreligious Dialogue

The corresponding video can be found at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOzuMWvv4Rg


4/27/2011 11:44 am (et) Michael Turner: logs in on 4/27/2011 11:44 am (et).
4/27/2011 11:45 am (et) Moderator: logs in on 4/27/2011 11:45 am (et).
4/27/2011 11:46 am (et) bobzane: private message to Moderator: logs in on 4/27/2011 11:46 am (et).
4/27/2011 11:50 am (et) Susan: private message to Moderator: logs in on 4/27/2011 11:50 am (et).
4/27/2011 11:55 am (et) bking: private message to Moderator: logs in on 4/27/2011 11:55 am (et).
4/27/2011 11:56 am (et) Tiffany: private message to Moderator: logs in on 4/27/2011 11:56 am (et).
4/27/2011 11:57 am (et) Laura S: private message to Moderator: logs in on 4/27/2011 11:57 am (et).
4/27/2011 12:00 pm (et) batya.steinlauf: private message to Moderator: logs in on 4/27/2011 12:00 pm (et).
4/27/2011 12:00 pm (et) Moderator: Welcome! This is Rebecca from the InterFaith Conference (IFC) and I will be your moderator. As this is still new, let me explain how this will work. On the right, you will see a video playing of our current topic to get the conversation going. If you have a comment and/or question send it along to me, the moderator. As long as I deem it appropriate, the comment will be posted to everyone and the speaker will have the opportunity to answer your question.
4/27/2011 12:00 pm (et) Moderator: Today, our topic is “The Baha’i Faith and Interreligious Dialogue” with Michael Turner of the Baha’i faith and member of IFC’s board offering a reflection and standing by. For further background on the Baha’i faith you can visit us.bahai.org.
4/27/2011 12:00 pm (et) Moderator: As always, I would like to remind you of the rules of our engagement. This is a respectful place where we come together to learn more about the religions of the world. Whether you agree or disagree, we welcome your comments and questions that are posed in a respectful manner. Please no profane or offensive remarks, they will not be posted. Also, this is a place of learning, so please refrain from “soapboxing.” If there are any issues or questions about this, they can be submitted along with the comments pertaining to our topic. I am here to make this a pleasant and educational experience for all, so enjoy and remember there are no stupid questions, just hostile ones!
4/27/2011 12:01 pm (et) Moderator: You can now view the beginning comments on the right. As you listen, please feel free to start sending questions or comments (YES, we want your comments). Also, the video will remain within the sidebar, so feel free to return to it as you wish. Our chat window automatically refreshes to keep the flow going, but if you wish to view the whole of the conversation, just hit the archive button. And lastly, PLEASE do not use double quotes as it led to some issues.
4/27/2011 12:02 pm (et) MikeNelson: private message to Moderator: logs in on 4/27/2011 12:02 pm (et).
4/27/2011 12:07 pm (et) Williams: private message to Moderator: logs in on 4/27/2011 12:07 pm (et).
4/27/2011 12:07 pm (et) Aaron: private message to Moderator: logs in on 4/27/2011 12:07 pm (et).
4/27/2011 12:09 pm (et) Moderator: Williams said: Are there still Bahai communities in Iran?
4/27/2011 12:10 pm (et) boobzane: private message to Moderator: logs in on 4/27/2011 12:10 pm (et).
4/27/2011 12:10 pm (et) Moderator: MikeNelson said: Is the garden and the island in the Tigris a shrine today?
4/27/2011 12:11 pm (et) Michael Turner: Yes but they are under a lot of restrictions now. They are not allowed to organize as such and the informal coordinating group, formed with the knowledge and tacit permission of the government, was arrested and sentenced to 20 years in prison.
4/27/2011 12:12 pm (et) Michael Turner: The island, I believe, is still there, but the Baha'i Faith is not allowed to own property in Iraq, despite a League of nations ruling in the 1920's.
4/27/2011 12:12 pm (et) Moderator: Tiffany said: How do Bahais pray and worship?
4/27/2011 12:12 pm (et) Moderator: MikeNelson said: How many American Bahais maintain membership in another church or religious institution?
4/27/2011 12:13 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: Is it possible to remain in both?
4/27/2011 12:13 pm (et) Michael Turner: We have no clergy. We meet for public devotions with readings from scripture, or worship privately, praying and meditating.
4/27/2011 12:15 pm (et) Moderator: MikeNelson said: How many Bahais are there in the US and worldwide? Where are they concentrated?
4/27/2011 12:15 pm (et) Moderator: MikeNelson said: Are the Bahais active in their communities? If so, is there a focus? (e.g. Catholics run schools)
4/27/2011 12:16 pm (et) Michael Turner: At this time we no longer affiliate with other religious bodies as we do not think of our selves as being Muslim Baha'is, Christian Baha'is, and the like. we are Baha'is (which means followers of the Glory) and we recognize the validity and power of the other
revelations sent down by God to humanity.

4/27/2011 12:17 pm (et) Moderator: MikeNelson said: So Baha'is are not allowed to belong to other faiths, too?
4/27/2011 12:17 pm (et) Moderator: MikeNelson said: Were they in the past?
4/27/2011 12:17 pm (et) Michael Turner: Depending on who you ask, between 5 and 7 million. The Encyclopedia Brittanica gives a higher number than the Baha'is do.
4/27/2011 12:17 pm (et) Moderator: bking said: Are Baha'i communities actively involved in social justice issues?
4/27/2011 12:19 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: Most other communities make some type of exclusivist claim, i.e. in the Christian faith what Jesus does is unique and final, how do you reconcile such beliefs?
4/27/2011 12:19 pm (et) Michael Turner: At the very beginning, there was not an effort made at separation, but eventually it was recognized that we were allowing historical barriers to divide us from people of different belief systems.
4/27/2011 12:21 pm (et) Michael Turner: We believe that the Revelation at the center of each major religion was sent down by the same God. That there are many similarities is well known; the differences are do to the different requirements of the time and culture in which a Revelation was introduced.
4/27/2011 12:22 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: What are the similarities you see among the religions?
4/27/2011 12:23 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: What significance do the difference have if they are accidents of time/place?
4/27/2011 12:23 pm (et) Laura S: private message to Moderator: logs off on 4/27/2011 12:23 pm (et).
4/27/2011 12:24 pm (et) Michael Turner: All religions tend to the same restrictions on personal behavior. All religions advocate prayer and reflection. All religions make efforts to unite a particular community of people.
4/27/2011 12:25 pm (et) Michael Turner: The differences between religions can be seen as part of the the great diversity of humanity. Because we have different understandings of the Divine or the nature of reality, we can, if we choose, learn from each other.
4/27/2011 12:27 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: I am not quite sure how to put it, but if the differences are all manifestations of the Divine, then are any wrong? If so, how can we tell? What do we appeal to?
4/27/2011 12:27 pm (et) Michael Turner: If you remember the story of the Blind men and the Elephant, it is apparent that God, or Heaven, is too great to be summarized or understood by any religion
4/27/2011 12:29 pm (et) Michael Turner: Someone once asked Baha'u'llah to name the best religious system. Baha'u'llah answered, 'Be anxiously concerned with the needs of the age ye live in, and center your deliberation on its exigencies and requirements.
4/27/2011 12:30 pm (et) Michael Turner: For Baha'u'llah, I think, the name of the religion was not so important as what you did in response to that connection with the Holy Spirit.
4/27/2011 12:30 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: I guess this gets back to some earlier questions, but Baha'is would be very active in social justice?
4/27/2011 12:31 pm (et) Moderator: Williams said: What is the core ethical teaching of the Baha'u'llah? Meaning, what is the way one is to act on that
4/27/2011 12:31 pm (et) Moderator: Tiffany said: So, by what standards do you measure the work of the Holy Spirit?
4/27/2011 12:32 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: If I dig into Christian faith it would be the fruits of the Spirit, such as charity and love, would it be similar to the Baha'i tradition/.
4/27/2011 12:32 pm (et) Michael Turner: Yes and no. We have strong feelings, but at the same tim, have to avoid getting involved with politics. Too often various causes involving social justice are associated with one political faction or another.
4/27/2011 12:34 pm (et) Moderator: boobzane: Since the Baha'i Faith is head quartered in Israel what is the Baha'i position on the Palestinian situation
4/27/2011 12:35 pm (et) Michael Turner: There is only one God, there is only one human race, and there is only one religion. Human beings have tried to describe the different names for God as belonging to different entities, tried to divide humanity into different races, and persisted in thinking of religions as plural, according to their labels that humans have applied to them.
4/27/2011 12:36 pm (et) Michael Turner: Charity and love as demonstrated in Christianity, and most especially by the actions of Jesus are certainly praised honored and regarded as examples to follow.
4/27/2011 12:36 pm (et) interfaith1017: private message to Moderator: logs in on 4/27/2011 12:36 pm (et).
4/27/2011 12:37 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: If politics is not the way to go about uniting people, how do you suggest carrying out this mission?
4/27/2011 12:38 pm (et) Michael Turner: The Baha'is have been in the Holy land since the times of the Ottoman Empire. We believe that the solution of that tragic situation depends on both sides recognizing each other as human, as relatives, and both sides coming to believe that Justice will prevail.
4/27/2011 12:39 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: How can we convince people of that?
4/27/2011 12:40 pm (et) Moderator: Tiffany said: Your vision of a peaceful Middle East is beautiful. I wonder how this gets carried out. How do you envision this happening in practical terms?
4/27/2011 12:40 pm (et) Michael Turner: We work on people's mindsets. We see humanity as one family, and that diversity is a blessing and to be treasured. We are encouraging others, in part by example, since Baha'is are among the most diverse groups of people on the planet, by cultural
background, language, etc.

4/27/2011 12:41 pm (et) Moderator: Tiffany said: So, the Bahais are involved in specific peacemaking efforts to change people's mindsets?
4/27/2011 12:42 pm (et) Michael Turner: At the Baha'i gardens in Israel, on Mt. Carmel, people of many faiths are employed as gardeners, caretakers, technicians etc. All of them learn to work with each other, to respect each other.
4/27/2011 12:43 pm (et) Michael Turner: We are active at the United Nations, working to improve the status of Women around the world. to improve education.
4/27/2011 12:44 pm (et) Michael Turner: We send people to different countries to act as bridges between groups that sometimes are separated by suspicion or just fear of the different.
4/27/2011 12:44 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: What about traditions who are against such initiatives? We are talking about social justice movements, but it is clear that some religions go about making the world better in different ways? How do we get them to work together?
4/27/2011 12:44 pm (et) Michael Turner: I lived in China for 6 years. I was there to teach and to learn.
4/27/2011 12:46 pm (et) Michael Turner: The basic need is for the different religious groups to decide that the world does not need competition between religions, but it does need the religions working together to accomplish important goals that are seen as important by these diverse communities.
4/27/2011 12:47 pm (et) Moderator: Tiffany said: Do you find yourself a lonely voice among the religious community in helping to improve the status of women?
4/27/2011 12:48 pm (et) Michael Turner: Universal education, is now being seen, even by groups that had not stressed that value in the past as being necessary for the world to move in a positive direction.
4/27/2011 12:49 pm (et) Moderator: Tiffany said: What unique role, if any, does religion have in uniting the world?
4/27/2011 12:49 pm (et) Michael Turner: Any of the greater religious communities you can name have significant groups within that now see the realization of the equality of Women and Men as being crucial to the material as well as spiritual development of any community.
4/27/2011 12:51 pm (et) Michael Turner: Religion must define all humanity as being part of a common community, with shared interests and shared obligations towards each other. Religion is a social force that could do this in a way that no political or philosophical movement could.
4/27/2011 12:53 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: What do you find in religion that is so unique?
4/27/2011 12:53 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: Do humanists fit into this view?
4/27/2011 12:53 pm (et) Michael Turner: The chief question is: Who is my neighbor? That is a question that religion can answer in a positive way, rather than exclusively.
4/27/2011 12:54 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: But so often religions don't answer in a positive tone/ What drives this misconception if it such?
4/27/2011 12:55 pm (et) Williams: private message to Moderator: logs off on 4/27/2011 12:55 pm (et).
4/27/2011 12:55 pm (et) Michael Turner: I think that there are people who have values that are sometimes described as humanistic, but they are not that different from values associated with religion.
4/27/2011 12:56 pm (et) Moderator: Ok, so we are coming to the end of our time today. Mr. Turner will answer the remaining questions and then we will wrap up
4/27/2011 12:56 pm (et) Moderator: boobzane said: Is believing in God a requirement to world unity
4/27/2011 12:57 pm (et) Michael Turner: Religions sometimes, historically, have become manipulators of power. Religions need to put aside such 'trappings' and focus on core values and messages. Religion can reach hearts and feelings in a unique way, unless we use religion to define difference rather than to understand unity.
4/27/2011 12:59 pm (et) Michael Turner: Believing in Justice? In China I talked to Atheists who believed in Justice but not God. I think that Justice, or Love, are just different names for something that is byond definition.
4/27/2011 12:59 pm (et) Aaron: private message to Moderator: logs off on 4/27/2011 12:59 pm (et).
4/27/2011 12:59 pm (et) Michael Turner: OK. Can people who have questions send them
to me at hengis@earthlink.net?

4/27/2011 1:00 pm (et) Moderator: Tiffany said: I hope we can both value and respect difference as well as envision a unity that ultimately transcends.
4/27/2011 1:00 pm (et) Moderator: Thank you for your participation today. If you would like to reach our speaker, please contact him at hengis@earthlink.net. We hope to see you back here next week, REMEMBER, we are moving to Fridays from 12 noon-1 PM EST. Next week, we will hear from Gerald Krell, maker of “The Asian and Abrahamic Religions: A Divine Encounter in America.” Stay tuned for the schedule for the next few months which will be posted on IFC’s website (www.ifcmw.org) by the end of the week!
4/27/2011 1:00 pm (et) Moderator: Also, this is a new effort on our part so we welcome your feedback! Any comments will be helpful. If you have any suggestion please feel free to email me at rebeccac@ifcmw.org.
4/27/2011 1:01 pm (et) Moderator: If you are interested in finding out more about our organization please feel free to browse our website: www.ifcmw.org and sign up for our bi-monthly e-newsletter by emailing me, again the address is rebeccac@ifcmw.org.

Wednesday, April 20, 2011

The Goals of Interreligious Dialogue

The corresponding video can be found at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7YnQ114R1s

4/20/2011 11:44 am (et) Moderator: logs in on 4/20/2011 11:44 am (et).
4/20/2011 11:47 am (et) Hengist: private message to Moderator: logs in on 4/20/2011 11:47 am (et).
4/20/2011 11:51 am (et) Lukas : private message to Moderator: logs in on 4/20/2011 11:51 am (et).
4/20/2011 11:52 am (et) JoyceD: private message to Moderator: logs in on 4/20/2011 11:52 am (et).
4/20/2011 11:52 am (et) solfrid mjelde: private message to Moderator: logs in on 4/20/2011 11:52 am (et).
4/20/2011 11:53 am (et) Susan: private message to Moderator: logs in on 4/20/2011 11:53 am (et).
4/20/2011 11:55 am (et) Rob_Mus: private message to Moderator: logs in on 4/20/2011 11:55 am (et).
4/20/2011 11:55 am (et) interfaith1017: private message to Moderator: logs in on 4/20/2011 11:55 am (et).
4/20/2011 11:57 am (et) Laura S: private message to Moderator: logs in on 4/20/2011 11:57 am (et).
4/20/2011 11:59 am (et) bernice: private message to Moderator: logs in on 4/20/2011 11:59 am (et).
4/20/2011 12:00 pm (et) Moderator: Welcome! This is Rebecca from the InterFaith Conference (IFC) and I will be your moderator. As this is still new, let me explain how this will work. On the right, you will see a video playing of our current topic to get the conversation going. If you have a comment and/or question send it along to me, the moderator. As long as I deem it appropriate, the comment will be posted to everyone and the speaker will have the opportunity to answer your question.
4/20/2011 12:00 pm (et) Moderator: Today, our topic is ‘The Goals of Interreligious Dialogue’ with Rev. Clark Lobenstine, Executive Director of IFC, offering a quick reflection and standing by.
4/20/2011 12:00 pm (et) Moderator: As always, I would like to remind you of the rules of our engagement. This is a respectful place where we come together to learn more about the religions of the world. Whether you agree or disagree, we welcome your comments and questions that are posed in a respectful manner. Please no profane or offensive remarks, they will not be posted. Also, this is a place of learning, so please refrain from ‘soapboxing.’ If there are any issues or questions about this, they can be submitted along with the comments pertaining to our topic. I am here to make this a pleasant and educational experience for all, so enjoy and remember there are no stupid questions, just hostile ones!
4/20/2011 12:00 pm (et) Clark Lobenstine: logs in on 4/20/2011 12:00 pm (et).
4/20/2011 12:01 pm (et) Moderator: You can now view the beginning comments on the right. As you listen, please feel free to start sending questions or comments (YES, we want your comments). Also, the video will remain within the sidebar, so feel free to return to it as you wish. Our chat window automatically refreshes to keep the flow going, but if you wish to view the whole of the conversation, just hit the archive button. And lastly, PLEASE do not use double quotes as it led to some issues.
4/20/2011 12:04 pm (et) MikeNelson: private message to Moderator: logs in on 4/20/2011 12:04 pm (et).
4/20/2011 12:10 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: How do we combat the resistance of many people, committed to their own faith tradition, to get interested and involved in interfaith activities? How do we move beyond 'preaching to the choir'? How can we convince them that interfaith is not a threat to their faith when they won't even open their ears to hear the message?
4/20/2011 12:11 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: Yes, it seems that you believe we can hold on to our faiths while doing interfaith work, and that it is even an important aspect, so this issue does come up.
4/20/2011 12:11 pm (et) Clark Lobenstine: Thanks, Laura, for your excellent questions
4/20/2011 12:11 pm (et) Lin: private message to Moderator: logs in on 4/20/2011 12:11 pm (et).
4/20/2011 12:12 pm (et) Clark Lobenstine: Its easy to be accused of just preaching to the choir.
4/20/2011 12:13 pm (et) Clark Lobenstine: In fact, we never know who we are speaking to, whether they are in the choir or not. Sharing our perspective may plant a seed, or confirm a seed that has already been planted.
4/20/2011 12:13 pm (et) roya: private message to Moderator: logs in on 4/20/2011 12:13 pm (et).
4/20/2011 12:13 pm (et) Clark Lobenstine: We can provide an alternative perspective to the way someone is used to hearing or saying something.
4/20/2011 12:14 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: But it could also challenge the place of a seed and I think that might scare some people. How do we expect them to accept that challenge.
4/20/2011 12:15 pm (et) Phil Wogaman: private message to Moderator: logs in on 4/20/2011 12:15 pm (et).
4/20/2011 12:15 pm (et) Clark Lobenstine: A supplement we've identified but haven't prepared yet will focus on taking the exclusive passages in any of our religious traditions and provide an alternative way to look at them, to understand them. That will take some important work
4/20/2011 12:15 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: and how do we even get in the door or get them to come to us to hear the message?
4/20/2011 12:15 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: I mean I think affirming the individual faiths while doing this work is important as you say. Perhaps if others are aware that you are not out to convert 4/20/2011 12:16 pm (et) Clark Lobenstine: Yes, Susan, its very important that people understand we are not out to convert them. That's a key element of building trust that I've focused on.
4/20/2011 12:17 pm (et) Clark Lobenstine: Letting the other person know that we are concerned to learn about their tradition is also a critical point as well.
4/20/2011 12:17 pm (et) Moderator: JoyceD said: What is the major incentive that brings the different faiths together?
4/20/2011 12:17 pm (et) Moderator: roya said: Hi Clark and everybody. I think a key element of interfaith dialogue is to demonstrate that people of different faiths are just human beings, like oneself.
4/20/2011 12:17 pm (et) Clark Lobenstine: And perhaps we should add that even choir members need weekly practice! Even they may need to hear what we have to say. I certainly continue to learn from others
4/20/2011 12:19 pm (et) Moderator: roya said: When we see our similarities, then our differences seem less scary.
4/20/2011 12:19 pm (et) Clark Lobenstine: Indeed, Roya. Sharing that we are all human beings is essential! That may be the beginning point others were asking about that gets one "in the door"
4/20/2011 12:19 pm (et) Moderator: Hengist said: We need to move to where we appreciate the differences. We do not each have places on a linear continuum ranging from right to wrong. very Faith comes up with unique solutions to common problems. When we study each other solutions, we improve our understanding of our own Faith's answers.
4/20/2011 12:20 pm (et) Clark Lobenstine: Thanks for your sharing, Hengist. I've often said there is no Presbyterian answer (and I'm a Presbyterian minister) to drug abuse, but there are Presbyterian answers and important answers of people of other faiths.
4/20/2011 12:20 pm (et) Clark Lobenstine: So we can improve the way we respond to a pressing problem or need in our community by working collaboratively with others.
4/20/2011 12:21 pm (et) Moderator: MikeNelson: In your experience, which denominations or faiths are most amenable (or least amenable) to interfaith efforts? I know in some Christian churches, people are real fond of quoting a few Bible verses that say And Jesus said--Unless you come through me, you cannot know God or enter the kingdom of Heaven.
4/20/2011 12:21 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: To many more conservative/fundamentalist types, it can seem like a contradiction (thus threat to faith or 'selling out' to doubt) to believe that one's own religion is THE Truth (exclusivism) but to also respect the religions of others (as equally valid?)
4/20/2011 12:22 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: Seems like the goals of those people are out to convert.
4/20/2011 12:22 pm (et) Clark Lobenstine: So, Mike Nelson, I think you'll find persons in different Christian denominations who are very open to persons of other faiths and persons who are not. Yes, there are some denominations that are more open in general, but that does not mean that each member of a congregation of that faith is open to persons of other faiths.
4/20/2011 12:24 pm (et) Moderator: private message to JoyceD: Thanks for your question, it will be posted shortly.
4/20/2011 12:24 pm (et) Moderator: Hengist said: I do not think any group has a monopoly on open minds or closed minds. I think that many that need to 'win' a dialogue are insecure about their own beliefs. Secure people are more interested in listening and learning.
4/20/2011 12:24 pm (et) Clark Lobenstine: Part of our opportunity and our challenge as persons committed to inter-religious understanding (and I use interfaith and inter-religious synonimously) is to speak to those of one's own tradition or faith in ways that they may be open to hearing
4/20/2011 12:25 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: I think that is a good point, and it makes sense that security comes from knowing what you beliee
4/20/2011 12:25 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: Can interreligious dialogue provide more answers than we can find in our own traditions?
4/20/2011 12:25 pm (et) Laura S: private message to Moderator: logs off on 4/20/2011 12:25 pm (et).
4/20/2011 12:27 pm (et) Moderator: Hengist said: I think that we often find ideas openly expressed in other traditions are implicit in our own traditions, and vice versa.
4/20/2011 12:27 pm (et) Clark Lobenstine: Someone in a meeting yesterday spoke of adults who behave like children and need to be right, for example, and adults who don't have that need. But I would add that its very important to understand and believe your own tradition is worthy, is worth being a part of for yourself, while at the same time knowing that God or whatever you call the ultimate in your life, may be calling someone to be
4/20/2011 12:28 pm (et) Clark Lobenstine: A lovely thought in response to Susan's question was shared by a Scandinavian Lutheran bishop who asked us to be able to share what we envy in another's tradition!
4/20/2011 12:29 pm (et) Moderator: JoyceD: Thank you for providing YouTube videos of these discussions. Can pagans and atheists and others with misunderstood beliefs be included in the dialog?
4/20/2011 12:30 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: If our goal is to gain more knowledge, then yes! I think the more different beliefs are even more helpful of a challenge that can shed more light on my own beliefs.
4/20/2011 12:31 pm (et) Clark Lobenstine: Certainly, JoyceD. The scope of the dialogue we have defined for the InterFaith Conference are historic religious traditions. And there's plenty of misunderstanding among them or about them. But its also important for pagans and atheists and others with misunderstood beliefs to be included.
4/20/2011 12:31 pm (et) DCP: private message to Moderator: logs in on 4/20/2011 12:31 pm (et).
4/20/2011 12:32 pm (et) Moderator: Hengist said: I think theological differences are trivial compared to the values that we share. My personal God does nothing for you, but we can share an appreciation of Justice or Compassion.
4/20/2011 12:32 pm (et) Moderator: JoyceD said: Yes, I believe we have more in common than not.
4/20/2011 12:34 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: I think we can at least find enough common ground to begin a discussion, but interreligious dialogue I believe should be about challenging the other person and the challenges cme from differences.
4/20/2011 12:34 pm (et) Moderator: Lukas said: I think every human being is shaped by certain values and a individual code of ethics. Therefore, i think a particpation of pagans and atheists in the dialogue can be enriching.
4/20/2011 12:34 pm (et) Clark Lobenstine: I wouldn't want to trivialize theological differences, and a focus on values shows our differences as well, as the supplement on values the InterFaith Conference is about to produce to our Teaching About Religion book shows. But there are fundamental values we do share. The Golden Rule, for example, is one important common value in so many diverse religious traditions.
4/20/2011 12:36 pm (et) Clark Lobenstine: Our values may not clash, and the differences in the values we choose to give priority to can be instructive of our differences as well as our similarities.
4/20/2011 12:36 pm (et) RevMark2U: private message to Moderator: logs in on 4/20/2011 12:36 pm (et).
4/20/2011 12:37 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: Differences seem to make the dialogue interesting, I wouldn't want to become all the same, but only wish to find a way in which we can live with differences.
4/20/2011 12:37 pm (et) Moderator: Hengist said: What is important to remember is that concepts that we as individuals reject are thought about differently by people who accept such concepts. A personal God, afterlife, reincarnation, etc, are all thought about in different ways, which all deserve
respect.

4/20/2011 12:38 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: But the differences can even be contraries so its hard to believe they are all about the same thing.

4/20/2011 12:38 pm (et) Moderator: Hengist said: The God you don't believe in is probably very different from the God I believe in.
4/20/2011 12:38 pm (et) Moderator: Phil Wogaman said: do we need to learn from religions other than our own, and not just about them? For instance, what can Christians and Muslims learn from one another's faith traditions?
4/20/2011 12:38 pm (et) Moderator: solfrid mjelde said: I think you can transfer Susans question to several parts of life. Travelling etc. At least I learn something new for very tradition I meet and it also puts my own world in perspective. If we are so certain on our own tradition and ignore others I think we are missing out on the amazing complexities of the world.
4/20/2011 12:39 pm (et) DCP: private message to Moderator: logs off on 4/20/2011 12:39 pm (et).
4/20/2011 12:40 pm (et) Moderator: JoyceD said: Religion is an element of culture and there are many elements of culture that we can learn from each other.
4/20/2011 12:40 pm (et) Moderator: RevMark2U said: I think the differences are twofold. Some of them cancel out; one has to choose. But the most important ones are complementary. I emphasize those. They are like our opposable thumb. Each of the religions has at least one blind spot, one amazing fault. Each has at least one amazing contribution. Together they give us stereo vision; they allow us to grasp more of reality.
4/20/2011 12:40 pm (et) Clark Lobenstine: The Hindu writer for a Hindu perspective on values said there were three separate sets of values from which he could have chosen. He chose one and wrote about it but those who follow either of the other two might disagree with his decision.
4/20/2011 12:42 pm (et) Clark Lobenstine: What would you say were the most important values in your life/for you?
4/20/2011 12:43 pm (et) Moderator: JoyceD said: I like the story of the blind men and the elephant. he universe is like an elephant and we are like blind people trying to decide what we are touching when we try to make sense of it.
4/20/2011 12:43 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: I mean it seems we have to believe that our own tradition has more truth than any other, otherwise we would not have chosen it, but I guess there can still be truths in the other traditions.
4/20/2011 12:43 pm (et) Moderator: Hengist said: Every difference occurs for a reason, in the circumstances of that Faith's appearance or the history that it has gone through. To understand
the origins of a difference increases our tolerance and even appreciation.

4/20/2011 12:44 pm (et) Moderator: RevMark2U: Following up on Phil Wogaman's addition, especially ‘we need to learn from,’ I totally agree. And we must overcome the Western religious bias for doctrine, dogma. One learns something entirely different from sitting on the meditation cushion and bowing to it, thus bowing to the Buddha within, or from doing Muslim prayer, than just reading about the ideas.
4/20/2011 12:45 pm (et) Clark Lobenstine: A key difference, Susan, I believe is that you hold the truth of your faith while being open to the truth that others find in their faith.
4/20/2011 12:45 pm (et) Moderator: RevMark2U: I say, ‘My wife is the most beautiful woman in the world.’ Is this some kind of objective reality? No way. But it is my subjective reality.
4/20/2011 12:45 pm (et) Moderator: Hengist said: Each of the blind men had a reason for their individual assessment of the elephant. What they needed was to remember that all had a necessarily limited experience.
4/20/2011 12:46 pm (et) Moderator: private message to RevMark2U: Please do not use double quotes as it messes with the post to all function. Thanks!
4/20/2011 12:47 pm (et) Moderator: JoyceD said: And dialog helped the blind men understand more about the whole that they each experienced differently.
4/20/2011 12:47 pm (et) Clark Lobenstine: Amen to what Hegist just said. Which of us with our finite minds can comprehend the infinite fully? Yes, we see as the Apostle Paul said, now in a mirror darkly.
4/20/2011 12:48 pm (et) cynthial345: private message to Moderator: logs in on 4/20/2011 12:48 pm (et).
4/20/2011 12:49 pm (et) Clark Lobenstine: Joyce's last point echoes Philip Wogaman's earlier comment about learning from others. If we can enter a dialogue expecting to learn from others, we most likely will!
4/20/2011 12:49 pm (et) Moderator: solfrid mjelde said: I we are going to affirm that different traditions contain truth how do we know what parts of them are true when we disagree?
4/20/2011 12:50 pm (et) Moderator: private message to RevMark2U: That is a great suggestion it is going on my list!
4/20/2011 12:50 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: Yes, is this a part of dialogue?
4/20/2011 12:51 pm (et) Moderator: Hengist said: An attitude of humility in combination with serenity, could make more dialogues possible.
4/20/2011 12:51 pm (et) Clark Lobenstine: And RevMark2U's point about our subjective perspective is so important as well. Hooray that he thinks his wife is the most beautiful woman in the world. Yet hooray that he knows that is his subjective perspective, not objective reality! Making that distinction when we are in inter-religious dialogue is key as well.
4/20/2011 12:51 pm (et) Moderator: JoyceD: We each have our own ways of determining what is ‘true’ but sometimes we have to agree to disagree.
4/20/2011 12:52 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: But when we believe that this point that we disagree on is of an ultimate importance, which is in line with religious belief, is it alright to let it sit at agree to disagree?
4/20/2011 12:52 pm (et) Moderator: RevMark2U said: Would we then agree that inter-religious dialogue is not about arriving at 'the' truth?
4/20/2011 12:52 pm (et) Moderator: RevMark2U said: The point of it must be something else?
4/20/2011 12:53 pm (et) Clark Lobenstine: And in the midst of agreeing to disagree, we can "know" that God (or our understanding of the ultimate) will reveal the reality of what is TRUE in the end.
4/20/2011 12:53 pm (et) Moderator: Hengist said: We must never to expect
to see things in entirely
the same way, not even
with those of our own
tradition.

4/20/2011 12:53 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: But is the end too late?
4/20/2011 12:54 pm (et) Moderator: Hengist said: The point of dialogue is greater understanding of a Truth too great for any of us.
4/20/2011 12:54 pm (et) Moderator: private message to Clark Lobenstine: Hey Clark, we have 5 mins. We should start wrapping it up.
4/20/2011 12:54 pm (et) Clark Lobenstine: No, the end is not too late if I hold what I believe now in the context of knowing that "in the end" God/ultimate truth will reveal to us what is TRUE.
4/20/2011 12:55 pm (et) Moderator: private message to Clark Lobenstine: JoyceD: In my faith, Unitarian Universalism, there's a saying that ‘to question truly is an answer’.
4/20/2011 12:55 pm (et) Moderator: RevMark2U said: Similar to my late colleague, Forrest Church's, assertion: God is not God's name; it is a three-letter word pointing to That which is greater than all of us and present in each of us.'
4/20/2011 12:55 pm (et) Clark Lobenstine: private message to moderator: How do you want to start wrapping up? I leave that up to you!
4/20/2011 12:56 pm (et) Moderator: private message to Clark Lobenstine: Ok, I will send a comment that we are wrapping, if you have any final comments add them, then send me a private message and I'll add my last comments
4/20/2011 12:57 pm (et) Moderator: Alright Everyone, it is again that time where we must wrap up for the week, please finish any thoughts you have going.
4/20/2011 12:57 pm (et) Moderator: RevMark2U said: Susan, I think you are pointing to religious assertions that say, 'If you don't believe such and such' or 'don't do such and such,' you will suffer eternal damnation, or something like that. Yes?
4/20/2011 12:57 pm (et) Moderator: RevMark2U said: Then it could be too late.
4/20/2011 12:57 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: Yes, I guess I was referring to those ho believe such things.
4/20/2011 12:59 pm (et) Moderator: Hengist said: We do not need to know the complete Truth now. (Good thing) What we need is an attitude towards Truth that makes an evolving understanding
possible.

4/20/2011 12:59 pm (et) Moderator: RevMark2U said: That might be one of those differences where one simply has to choose; where there is no particular coming together.
4/20/2011 12:59 pm (et) Clark Lobenstine: Thank you all SO MUCH for sharing in this dialogue on interfaith dialogue! I look forward to our next week's session, same time, same place! And if you want to learn more about the InterFaith Conference, please go to our website, www.ifcmw.org and/or sign up there for our every other month e-newsletter and no more than weekly programmatic updates!
4/20/2011 12:59 pm (et) Moderator: Phil Wogaman said: I like the Forrest Church comment. It reminds us that there is in interreligious dialogue both a basis for expectancy and grounds for criticism.
4/20/2011 1:00 pm (et) Moderator: RevMark2U said: I think I no longer have an idea that there is something like one, capital-T truth
4/20/2011 1:00 pm (et) Moderator: cynthial345 said: Yes, interfaith dialogue is an attitude or a way of being and listening that allows for understanding and respect.
4/20/2011 1:00 pm (et) Moderator: Thank you for your participation today. If you would like to reach our speaker, please contact me at rebeccac@ifcmw.org. We hope to see you back here next week, same place, same time. We will be hearing from Michael Turner of the Baha’i community and member of IFC’s board who will be sharing his faith and its view on interreligious dialogue. However, after next week we will be moving to Fridays from 12 noon-1 PM EST.
4/20/2011 1:01 pm (et) Moderator: JoyceD said: It will help our growing multicultural world.
4/20/2011 1:01 pm (et) Moderator: Also, this is a new effort on our part so we welcome your feedback! Any comments will be helpful. If you have any suggestion please feel free to email me at rebeccac@ifcmw.org.
4/20/2011 1:01 pm (et) Moderator: If you are interested in finding out more about our organization please feel free to browse our website: www.ifcmw.org and sign up for our bi-monthly e-newsletter by emailing me, again the address is rebeccac@ifcmw.org.

Wednesday, April 13, 2011

Facing the Challenges of Immigration from a Religious Perspective

The corresponding video can be viewed at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXwuHLHsh6A

4/13/2011 11:43 am (et) Moderator: logs in on 4/13/2011 11:43 am (et).
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4/13/2011 11:48 am (et) Lin: private message to Moderator: logs in on 4/13/2011 11:48 am (et).
4/13/2011 11:52 am (et) James: private message to Moderator: logs in on 4/13/2011 11:52 am (et).
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4/13/2011 12:00 pm (et) Alice Foltz: logs in on 4/13/2011 12:00 pm (et).
4/13/2011 12:00 pm (et) Moderator: Welcome! This is Rebecca from the InterFaith Conference (IFC) and I will be your moderator. As this is still new, let me explain how this will work. On the right, you will see a video playing of our current topic to get the conversation going. If you have a comment and/or question send it along to me, the moderator. As long as I deem it appropriate, the comment will be posted to everyone and the speaker will have the opportunity to answer your question.
4/13/2011 12:00 pm (et) Moderator: Today, our topic is “Dealing with the Challenges of Immigration from a Religious Perspective.” We are featuring Ms. Alice Foltz. She is a member of Wellspring United Church of Christ and President of Centreville Immigration Forum, a coalition of churches and individuals in Centreville, VA that work together to enhance the quality of life for immigrants in the community. It is a 501c3 through it s affiliation with Virginia Organizing.
4/13/2011 12:01 pm (et) Moderator: For more information, their website is www.centrevilleimmigrationforum.org.
4/13/2011 12:01 pm (et) Moderator: As always, I would like to remind you of the rules of our engagement. This is a respectful place where we come together to learn more about the religions of the world. Whether you agree or disagree, we welcome your comments and questions that are posed in a respectful manner. Please no profane or offensive remarks, they will not be posted. Also, this is a place of learning, so please refrain from “soapboxing.” If there are any issues or questions about this, they can be submitted along with the comments pertaining to our topic. I am here to make this a pleasant and educational experience for all, so enjoy and remember there are no stupid questions, just hostile ones!
4/13/2011 12:01 pm (et) jfoltzva: private message to Moderator: logs in on 4/13/2011 12:01 pm (et).
4/13/2011 12:01 pm (et) Lukas: private message to Moderator: logs in on 4/13/2011 12:01 pm (et).
4/13/2011 12:02 pm (et) Moderator: You can now view the beginning comments on the right. Note, there is some static around the 1:00 mark, but it will pass. As you listen, please feel free to start sending questions or comments (YES, we want your comments). Also, the video will remain within the sidebar, so feel free to return to it as you wish. Our chat window automatically refreshes to keep the flow going, but if you wish to view the whole of the conversation, just hit the archive button. And lastly, PLEASE do not use double quotes as it led to some issues.
4/13/2011 12:09 pm (et) Moderator: Lin said: What is exactly about your faith that draws you to this work?
4/13/2011 12:09 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: The work of this church is extending Christian love to those in need without judgement. What can be so wrong about that?
4/13/2011 12:11 pm (et) monkey: private message to Moderator: logs in on 4/13/2011 12:11 pm (et).
4/13/2011 12:11 pm (et) Moderator: Hengist said: It boils down to who we are willing to accept as part of our community, both our immediate community and the community of those nations we want to include as part of our broader community. Can we redefine the issue as a matter of how much we are willing to be good neighbors?
4/13/2011 12:12 pm (et) Alice Foltz: Christian faith reaches back to Old Testament teachings that we care for the aliens among us as ourselves. The day laborers are human beings in need, and we are called to love and care for "the least of these." Jesus talked about this in Matthew.
4/13/2011 12:12 pm (et) Moderator: Lin said: Do you find it translates across traditions?
4/13/2011 12:14 pm (et) Alice Foltz: Definitely all the faiths teach that we treat others with love and nonviolence. I am impressed by teachings of Islam in which there is great emphasis on equality, and certainly these are central to Buddhism.
4/13/2011 12:15 pm (et) Alice Foltz: It is often easier for faith communities in developed countries to collect offerings and send money far away (and this is often needed!), but it is harder for us to act out generosity in our daily lives and in the communities where we live.
4/13/2011 12:15 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: Why do you think so many Americans are resistant to the new immigrants here already?
4/13/2011 12:16 pm (et) Moderator: Hengist said: Part of any Faith is to redefine the community, to extend our vision to include a broader population.
4/13/2011 12:16 pm (et) Susan: private message to Moderator: logs in on 4/13/2011 12:16 pm (et).
4/13/2011 12:17 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: we hear all sorts of excuses like: they are taking jobs away from us. But that argument does not hold water because they take jobs that none of us want.
4/13/2011 12:17 pm (et) Alice Foltz: There is a fear that we will lose our identity and the way we see ourselves as Americans. Someone at an early Forum meeting said he feared that the ingredients would overwhelm the soup in our "melting pot."
4/13/2011 12:18 pm (et) Moderator: James said: I think its because xenophobia is part of American culture. Which is in contrast to our values as religious people, we are taught to know and love one another, and that God made us diverse so that we may learn about each other
4/13/2011 12:18 pm (et) Moderator: Hengist said: People are afraid of change, and immigrants can seem to be one of the more obvious signs of change. Seeing change as positive may be a key to resolution of the issue.
4/13/2011 12:18 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: taking away our identity Isn't American identity a nation of immigrants (we seem to forget that our own ancestors were immigrants).
4/13/2011 12:18 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: The fear does not seem alien to religion either. Historically, most religions have had a period in which they are not open to outsiders.
4/13/2011 12:18 pm (et) Alice Foltz: The truth is that America is always changing, nothing is static, and we can grow in our own faith and life by being generous. Fear does not create safe space for anyone.
4/13/2011 12:19 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: But if there is a history of religions acting in the same way, how can we refocus our communities to be accepting?
4/13/2011 12:20 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: Actually, I'm teaching a class right now about religious history in America. There does seem to be a long history of resistance to new kinds of people (from different religions as well as cultures) coming here. I just find it ironic.
4/13/2011 12:20 pm (et) Moderator: James said: Ive always seen America as more of a salad than a melting pot. But I am the son of an immigrant. To some people who have been here for hundreds of years (still hundreds of years less than the natives) the definition of 'American' is limited to a select group of people
4/13/2011 12:20 pm (et) Alice Foltz: It's definitely true that Americans have often wanted to turn away new immigrants who were perceived as threatening established patterns. Irish Catholics, Germans, Jewish immigrants, Chinese and Japanese....the list is huge. But that doesn't meant we can't find better ways, today.
4/13/2011 12:21 pm (et) Moderator: Hengist said: The conflict between generations often reflects a reaction to change which younger people are often more willing to come to terms with.
4/13/2011 12:21 pm (et) Laura S: private message to Moderator: logs off on 4/13/2011 12:21 pm (et).
4/13/2011 12:22 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: Do you think the religious community is where to find these news ways? and what are they?
4/13/2011 12:22 pm (et) Alice Foltz: Young people whom I've taught are always welcoming, and I think that when we know folks up close and in person...as classmates, for example...it's hard to despise them.
4/13/2011 12:22 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: And it is interesting to point out that it is younger generations, the younger generations are said to be less religious.
4/13/2011 12:23 pm (et) Moderator: Hengist said: When religions give up on trying to connect with new folks, trying to preserve an imagined pure state, they are in danger of becoming useless and irrelevant.
4/13/2011 12:23 pm (et) Karel: private message to Moderator: logs in on 4/13/2011 12:23 pm (et).
4/13/2011 12:24 pm (et) AKD: private message to Moderator: logs in on 4/13/2011 12:24 pm (et).
4/13/2011 12:24 pm (et) Alice Foltz: Religious faith has been the center of many folks who have been involved in the Immigration Forum from the beginning. The faith call is hard to miss. Some people can come from other perspectives, but it's definitely been the religious community that has responded first in Centreville.
4/13/2011 12:24 pm (et) Moderator: private message to solfrid: Hey, I lost your comment in the rush can you send something else?
4/13/2011 12:25 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: Do you have a wide variety of faiths represented in the Forum?
4/13/2011 12:26 pm (et) Alice Foltz: We have volunteers from many Protestant churches, from Catholic churches, and also some Jewish volunteers.
4/13/2011 12:26 pm (et) Moderator: Hengist said: It is popular to think of religious communities as inherently static, but we know this is not the case. The fact that religion is regarded as being against change says a lot about the problems of our society. Immigrants, many of whom have a different view of religion, could be helpful to our society.
4/13/2011 12:28 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: I do find that true, as a Catholic many feel that the Church is monolithic, but that is of course not the case (how can something be around for 2000 years without changing?) But at the same time, does the idea of a faith changing help us deal with change in a broader context?
4/13/2011 12:28 pm (et) Moderator: James said: Is there any evidence that immigrants who are members of established faith communities (Korean Catholics for example) are more easily accepted/integrated into society?
4/13/2011 12:28 pm (et) Alice Foltz: Someone commented in an ESL class last Sunday that immigrants are more "patriotic" than many-generational Americans! It's easy to see that in the community we have learned to know. They bring gifts to us of sight, helping us to see the things of value in our community and in our faith.
4/13/2011 12:29 pm (et) Moderator: Lin said: What can faith communities do to help new immigrants who have no clear religious beliefs?
4/13/2011 12:29 pm (et) Moderator: Karel said: yes, you're right, that is a view to see religion as non static, the people who are atheist (a belief also) have sometimes static views on change we must do...we have to stop generalizing
4/13/2011 12:30 pm (et) Alice Foltz: One woman in an ESL group said that she goes to church (an English church) every Sunday, but no one talks to her. That's really sad, and I hope that all churches will find ways to reach out.
4/13/2011 12:30 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: Yes, I would agree there are views of non-change, but I don't think even those can be generalized as atheistic.
4/13/2011 12:32 pm (et) yasha: private message to Moderator: logs in on 4/13/2011 12:32 pm (et).
4/13/2011 12:32 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: I think we were just pointing out that in the general schema of life, most notice that things do not remain static, whether political or religious.
4/13/2011 12:32 pm (et) Moderator: Karel said: I'm from Quebec province in Canada and presently, there is a kind of hunt for witches against people with religions beliefs, that do a lot for society in the communities, as well as the public institutions
4/13/2011 12:32 pm (et) Alice Foltz: Back to Lin's question...faith communities can talk to immigrants, invite them to participate in small groups, find out their stories. Immigrants are human beings just like us, and need conversation.
4/13/2011 12:33 pm (et) Moderator: James said: Im not sure I understand your comment Karel
4/13/2011 12:33 pm (et) Moderator: Hengist said: Where Faith groups can lead is by making it clear that immigrants have a place in our society and are valued, that immigrants are seen as bringing talents and qualities to the table that will benefit both our country and our faith groups.
4/13/2011 12:36 pm (et) Alice Foltz: The workers in Centreville held a worship service last fall, when a visiting priest was able to lead in their native Mayan language. It was wonderful to see folks gather from across the region, and to see them worship and sing together as they hadn't been able to do for some years. It would, however, have been possible if we in the Wellspring Church hadn't known them and provided space for this to happen. It definitely enriched all of us who took part.
4/13/2011 12:36 pm (et) Moderator: Karel said: In Quebec, we look suspiciously at people with different believes (especially religion and the immigrant that are more traditional)
4/13/2011 12:37 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: What do you think makes faith groups especially well equipped for that, Hengist?
4/13/2011 12:37 pm (et) Alice Foltz: Quebec is not alone in this, I'm sure!
4/13/2011 12:37 pm (et) Moderator: Karel said: hehe im sure about that
4/13/2011 12:37 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: But why do you think that is?
4/13/2011 12:38 pm (et) Alice Foltz: Why are faith groups afraid to speak out for people who don't have voices? (This includes immigrants, the poor, and many other groups!) Why do we allow the voices of fear to dominate the public conversations?
4/13/2011 12:39 pm (et) RevMark2U: private message to Moderator: logs in on 4/13/2011 12:39 pm (et).
4/13/2011 12:40 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: Don't religions tell us to do the opposite? I think Chrisitianity does, do others?
4/13/2011 12:40 pm (et) Moderator: James said: I think it is because some people dont grow up in incredibly diverse environments. If you have never met or experienced a Muslim until you turn 25, then you might be suspicious... I grew up with muslims catholics and jews, and I would fancy that had a hand in the level of tolerance I try to exhibit
4/13/2011 12:40 pm (et) Moderator: Hengist said: What equips Faith groups for opening up society to newcomers are the stories and teachings, and the sense that we can best serve God by being of service to our fellow human beings, and by recognizing that we are all children of a loving God.
4/13/2011 12:41 pm (et) Alice Foltz: We have power, the strength of faith and the guarantee that God/Allah/etc will be with us regardless of the risk of rejection or failure. But still our tendency is to keep still and care for our own small garden, forgetting those outside the walls.
4/13/2011 12:41 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: But can't that be construed as a belief that is specific to a particular tradition?
4/13/2011 12:42 pm (et) Moderator: AKD said: I think it's human to be more comfortable to what is known and familiar. In general, we gravitate toward the known. However, our higher spritual or religious selves call us to move beyond comfort and do what is right like welcoming the stranger. We've all been strangers in some context and all it takes is to remember those feelings to know it is right to reach out.
4/13/2011 12:44 pm (et) Moderator: Hengist said: A study of history would suggest that immigrants do change a society, and we who are products of such changes that happened in the past tend to see those changes as natural and beneficial.
4/13/2011 12:44 pm (et) Alice Foltz: Ricardo Esquivia, a peacemaker in Colombia, said that nearly everyone in Colombia claims to be Christian; if all acted on their faith, there would be peace and justice for all. But we so easily justify exclusion and self-protection, even within religious groups.
4/13/2011 12:45 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: Religion is a comfort though, AKD, you said that it asks us to step outside of our comfort zone, but many retreat to their traditions for comfort.
4/13/2011 12:45 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: Religions even seem to be a vehicle for exclusion, Alice.
4/13/2011 12:45 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: How do we change it?
4/13/2011 12:46 pm (et) Moderator: AKD said: I think the comfort we find in our traditions should be based on a confidence that we're acting justly.
4/13/2011 12:46 pm (et) Alice Foltz: Susan & AKD....the comfort comes not only from familiar liturgies, music and words....but from sharing these with other folks. If we only want to be surrounded by the symbols of religion, and shut out the voices of people, we may as well worship in museums!
4/13/2011 12:47 pm (et) Moderator: Hengist said: The value os being static is that it provides an illusion of security. Can we use the power of our beliefs to embrace change, since we have values to steer that change, to some extent, and religions that teach us that we have ways finding security even in the midst of change.
4/13/2011 12:48 pm (et) Alice Foltz: Susan: Yes, religion has often been used as a terrible weapon. But that does not mean that we have to continue that pattern. MLK said the ark of the future tends toward justice...and I think we have to figure out how to make this happen.
4/13/2011 12:49 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: The exclusive trends in religion seem to be a vehicle for stability as well, so we would also have to break those down.
4/13/2011 12:50 pm (et) Alice Foltz: Stability does not mean "no change." This is impossible unless we are dead! Stability means finding the ways to create community that live together.
4/13/2011 12:50 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: Seems a much larger leap of faith at that point. It remings me of Kierkegaard who speaks about faith as floating on water, we just have to let ourselves go and then we can be comforted.
4/13/2011 12:52 pm (et) Moderator: This is RevMark2U's whole comment: The studies of neuroscience now are fascinating. There seems to be a built-in conservatism/protectionism retreat and fortify process, connected to our "reptilian brain," our limbic system. I find this at work in most of all religions. But there also can arise and has arisen in all religions an opening up to the new, the different. Whence it arises remains a mystery, but some attach to it the name of their God, or for non-theistic religions (much of Buddhism, Daoism, Confucianism, Humanism, Naturalism) something else.
4/13/2011 12:52 pm (et) Moderator: Hengist said: The Ark is a powerful symbol, navigating to a brand new world, with our beliefs providing shelter (psychologically, at least). This does not mean going back to the world that was, but to a new and better life.
4/13/2011 12:55 pm (et) Alice Foltz: Religion also helps us understand that all of us, wherever we are, are immigrants in this life with a larger mission and faith world outside ourselves. Protecting our little corner of the universe is not the ultimate goal. Doing justice, loving kindness, and walking humbly with God....that's where truth is.
4/13/2011 12:55 pm (et) Moderator: Hi All, we are coming to the end of our time together for this week, so I just want to make sure our final thoughts are all heard.
4/13/2011 12:56 pm (et) Alice Foltz: Do contact CIF at centrevilleimmigrationforum.org! and I hope folks everywhere will find new ways to reach out to the most vulnerable in your own communities!
4/13/2011 12:56 pm (et) Moderator: RevMark2U said: Interesting use of the Torah image of the Ark - shelter until you reach the new world. Similar image in Buddhism, but with a difference - take a boat to the other shore, but when you have reached the other shore you no longer need the boat, so you can discard it.
4/13/2011 12:58 pm (et) Alice Foltz: Maybe the boat image helps us to realize that "immigration" is not the point, and all of us are on a journey as human beings searching for God/truth.
4/13/2011 12:58 pm (et) Moderator: Hengist said: Cortez burned his boats, but most immigrants, like us, will want to hold onto them. Thank you very much, all of you.
4/13/2011 12:58 pm (et) Moderator: Thank you for your participation today. We would like to relate a few details. The Day Workers Center mentioned has an expected Summer 2011 opening. Also, in preparation for that, Centreville Immigration Forum is searching for a Director and two part-time positions. Information is available on their website. If you are interested in further communication our speaker, you can reach her at info@centrevilleimmigrationforum.org (there is also a link to this on their website).
4/13/2011 12:58 pm (et) Moderator: We hope to see you back here next week, same place, same time. We will be offering an open forum on the question, “The Goals of Interreligious Dialogue” with Rev. Clark Lobenstine, Executive Director of IFC, offering a quick reflection and standing by.
4/13/2011 12:59 pm (et) Moderator: Also, this is a new effort on our part so we welcome your feedback! Any comments will be helpful. If you have any suggestion please feel free to email me at rebeccac@ifcmw.org.
4/13/2011 12:59 pm (et) Alice Foltz: The blessings of generosity in our communities can be huge.
4/13/2011 12:59 pm (et) Moderator: If you are interested in finding out more about our organization please feel free to browse our website: www.ifcmw.org and sign up for our bi-monthly e-newsletter by emailing me, again the address is rebeccac@ifcmw.org.
4/13/2011 12:59 pm (et) Alice Foltz: Thanks!