Thursday, September 29, 2011

Views from the Outside: Getting Involved in the Interfaith World

The corresponding video can be found at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpJf7t-KqDU

9/29/2011 12:44 pm (et) Moderator: logs in on 9/29/2011 12:44 pm (et).
9/29/2011 12:52 pm (et) Laura S: private message to Moderator: logs in on 9/29/2011 12:52 pm (et).
9/29/2011 12:54 pm (et) Rebecca Cohen: logs in on 9/29/2011 12:54 pm (et).
9/29/2011 12:56 pm (et) Mae: private message to Moderator: logs in on 9/29/2011 12:56 pm (et).
9/29/2011 12:57 pm (et) Susan: private message to Moderator: logs in on 9/29/2011 12:57 pm (et).
9/29/2011 12:59 pm (et) Moderator: Welcome! This is Megan from the InterFaith Conference (IFC) and I will be your moderator, filling in for Rebecca. On the right, you will see a video playing of our current topic to get the conversation going. If you have a comment and/or question send it along to me, the moderator. As long as I deem it appropriate, the comment will be posted to everyone and the speaker will have the opportunity to answer your question.
9/29/2011 12:59 pm (et) Moderator: Today, our topic is ‘Views from the Outside: Getting Involved in the Interfaith World.’ The reflection is from Rebecca Cohen, IFC Intern.
9/29/2011 1:00 pm (et) gogreen: private message to Moderator: logs in on 9/29/2011 1:00 pm (et).
9/29/2011 1:00 pm (et) Moderator: As always, I would like to remind you of the rules of our engagement. This is a respectful place where we come together to learn more about the religions of the world. Whether you agree or disagree, we welcome your comments and questions that are posed in a respectful manner. Please no profane or offensive remarks, they will not be posted. Also, this is a place of learning, so please refrain from ‘soapboxing.’ If there are any issues or questions about this, they can be submitted along with the comments pertaining to our topic. I am here to make this a pleasant and educational experience for all, so enjoy and remember there are no stupid questions, just hostile ones!
9/29/2011 1:00 pm (et) Moderator: You can now view the beginning comments on the right. As you listen, please feel free to start sending questions or comments (YES, we want your comments). Also, the video will remain within the sidebar, so feel free to return to it as you wish. Our chat window automatically refreshes to keep the flow going, but if you wish to view the whole of the conversation, just hit the archive button. And lastly, PLEASE do not use double quotes as it leads to some issues.
9/29/2011 1:02 pm (et) JoyceD: private message to Moderator: logs in on 9/29/2011 1:02 pm (et).
9/29/2011 1:04 pm (et) sheaya: private message to Moderator: logs in on 9/29/2011 1:04 pm (et).
9/29/2011 1:08 pm (et) Moderator: gogreen said: how did you get involved in interfaith work?
9/29/2011 1:08 pm (et) Moderator: gogreen said: (that was to the others in this forum)
9/29/2011 1:09 pm (et) Moderator: Mae said: well for me, it was almost by accident. I'm here studying Islam & world affairs, and just so happened to learn about the IFC when looking for internships, and TA-DA here I am!
9/29/2011 1:11 pm (et) Rebecca Cohen: Mae, what got you involved in Islam? As I mentioned, my interested in interfaith all started with an interest in Judaism that cam from my heritage.
9/29/2011 1:12 pm (et) Moderator: JoyceD said: I got involved when I realized my small congregation and religious association could not affect big issues, like peace in the world, without other religious groups. At that time I was actually working on children's issues.
9/29/2011 1:13 pm (et) Rebecca Cohen: Joyce, have you continued to work on other issues? I feel like interfaith can be a bug, once bitten you just keep getting deeper into the world
9/29/2011 1:14 pm (et) Rebecca Cohen: And what outlets did you use when you first started?
9/29/2011 1:15 pm (et) Moderator: JoyceD said: I worked with IFCMW & Rev. Clark Lobenstine.
9/29/2011 1:15 pm (et) Moderator: JoyceD said: We did an interfaith Children's Sabbath which had the most faiths ever represented in DC.
9/29/2011 1:15 pm (et) Moderator: JoyceD said: I learned that it's not easy working with religious organizations.
9/29/2011 1:16 pm (et) Moderator: JoyceD said: Many religious organizations are top down, whereas mine is bottom up in structure.
9/29/2011 1:16 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: You mention something about a Families project...do you think working with young people is helpful?
9/29/2011 1:17 pm (et) Rebecca Cohen: Yes, in my first attempt at all this which was with the Brandeis Interfaith Leadership Development, there were some challenging issues.
9/29/2011 1:17 pm (et) Moderator: JoyceD said: It can be hard trying to get ministers, rabbis, and other religious leaders time.
9/29/2011 1:18 pm (et) Rebecca Cohen: It was right at the time the Mumbai bombings had just taken place, and Brandeis is predominately a Jewish camous, but there were many Muslims in BILD also, so it made it very difficult, especially as someone who is not of either of those faiths
9/29/2011 1:19 pm (et) Moderator: JoyceD said: The service we put together with children's choirs and dancing and many other aspects was very rewarding in the end.
9/29/2011 1:19 pm (et) Rebecca Cohen: Working with kids definitely poses an interesting problem. On one hand, are they truly ready to understand all the complexities of religion, but the focus of getting the children to work together is very helpful.
9/29/2011 1:20 pm (et) Rebecca Cohen: There is a program called IYAG here in DC that works with high school students and they do a lot of community service around the area
9/29/2011 1:21 pm (et) Moderator: JoyceD said: How does IYAG reach other to the students?
9/29/2011 1:21 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: (sorry, behind a bit) Wow, I wish there had been such opportunity when I was in college and grad school back in the late 70's and 80's. I had to take the initiative to start an interfaith group on my small college campus.
9/29/2011 1:21 pm (et) Rebecca Cohen: And even though the students may not apprecitate all the nuance, being presented with what one religion says and what another says, and then being told why there are some differeces does get them to think critically about their beliefs, and question, which I find most important
9/29/2011 1:22 pm (et) Moderator: Mae said: What was that like, Laura? Was it difficult? What complications did you encounter?
9/29/2011 1:22 pm (et) Rebecca Cohen: IYAG does some outreach on the internet, they are connected with the 9/11 Unity Walk here in DC
9/29/2011 1:23 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: I'll say it was hard after I left college and out in the big world and it was difficult to find others interested in interfaith
9/29/2011 1:23 pm (et) Rebecca Cohen: As I said, I even wish there had been some of this when I was a kid, it was difficult growing up being told your grandmother may be going to hell (had some old school teachers)
9/29/2011 1:24 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: I got connected through the New Age community and groups
9/29/2011 1:24 pm (et) Moderator: JoyceD said: I agree with Laura that there are not enough people interested in interfaith.
9/29/2011 1:24 pm (et) Moderator: Mae said: Yeah, I feel interfaith isn't very common where I grew up. I didn't even know we had an interfaith group there until I found the one here
9/29/2011 1:24 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: started by finding a weekly radio talk show on NPR ('in the spirit' with Lex Hixon)
9/29/2011 1:25 pm (et) Moderator: gogreen said: and they dont' seem like common orgs on college campuses, even though there are so many faith-based groups
9/29/2011 1:25 pm (et) Rebecca Cohen: But it is encouraging to see the number of people interested growing.
9/29/2011 1:26 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: back in college, when I still identified as Jewish, I started with a very negative attitude toward other religions ('they are all wrong')
9/29/2011 1:26 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: by my last semester in college I realized I did not really know much about the other religions to say they are wrong so I took my first course in religion - a Jew taking a course on the New Testament
9/29/2011 1:27 pm (et) Moderator: JoyceD said: As a UU, I was taught that there is some truth in all religions.
9/29/2011 1:28 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: I went in looking to learn what exactly was wrong with the teachings but quickly came to realize that other religions have some very interesting things to say and some of it I could actually agree with. Needless to say, with that realization I could no longer say other religions were wrong
9/29/2011 1:29 pm (et) Moderator: JoyceD said: The story of the blind men and the elephant is a good illustration of how none of us has the whole story.
9/29/2011 1:29 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: once I finished that course, despite having finished my college education, I was hungry to know what other religions had to say so I started taking more classes, just for personal interest. eventually that led me to interacting with people of different religions (through the New Age groups) and then on to grad school for religious studies
9/29/2011 1:29 pm (et) Rebecca Cohen: Between Laura's story and my own, I think it is clear that college can be a formative time, I mean we are beginning to question our own beliefs and so we look at others? Does that seem fair?
9/29/2011 1:30 pm (et) Moderator: Mae said: Rebecca, I can definitely see that in my own experience
9/29/2011 1:30 pm (et) Moderator: JoyceD said: Yes, Rebecca.
9/29/2011 1:30 pm (et) Rebecca Cohen: Maybe that is why IFYC and the like are exploding at such a quick rate?
9/29/2011 1:31 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: now I teach college courses on the world's religions and find that for most of my students it is the first time they are really getting exposed to other religions
9/29/2011 1:31 pm (et) Rebecca Cohen: And while I have had my fair share of meeting with the older generation, but I see such a refreshing interest in my own generation. there are programs beginning in the university on pluralism and comparative religion and theology and these are thriving.
9/29/2011 1:31 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: but many of them are curious and seeking for something beyond what they were (or were not) exposed to growing up
9/29/2011 1:32 pm (et) Moderator: JoyceD said: My minister taught comparative religion and asked his students to visit 3 other congregations beside their own faith - it was good for them to be more open-minded. Unfortunately, one went to the nearest church of their religion and told them how we are heathens.
9/29/2011 1:32 pm (et) Rebecca Cohen: That sounds familiar!
9/29/2011 1:32 pm (et) Rebecca Cohen: I was the random Catholic named Rebecca Cohen taking Judaic Studies at Brandeis!
9/29/2011 1:32 pm (et) Moderator: JoyceD said: I think more of the younger generation is more open-minded.
9/29/2011 1:33 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: with a name like Rebecca Cohen I'll bet they would just assume you were Jewish!
9/29/2011 1:33 pm (et) Rebecca Cohen: Haha, yes try convincing some of them otherwise
9/29/2011 1:34 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: I have an assignment where I require my students to do field research by visiting a religion they are not familar with AND talking with people of other faiths
9/29/2011 1:34 pm (et) Rebecca Cohen: But what I have found most helpful is finding the right people to get you involved. I am not sure if we have any young people on here, but for those who are already in the interfaith to reach out to others.
9/29/2011 1:34 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: I find that I have learned more about the world's religions, not through studies in the classroom but through personal encounters with people of various faiths
9/29/2011 1:34 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: - through interfaith relations
9/29/2011 1:35 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: for me, the attraction is more on the theological dialogue rather than the joint service projects
9/29/2011 1:35 pm (et) Moderator: JoyceD said: Bravo, Laura, for that requirement.
9/29/2011 1:35 pm (et) Rebecca Cohen: The world of interfaith can be intimidating, I mean there are customs completely new, it is helpful to have a guide.
9/29/2011 1:36 pm (et) Moderator: JoyceD said: Some people need a encouragement to open up their minds to different ideas.
9/29/2011 1:37 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: I encourage my students to get extra credit by attending Interfaith events (like the recent Unity Walk or the upcoming Interfaith Concert)
9/29/2011 1:37 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: In fact, if IFC had some brochures on their work (like they used to have) I would hand those out in class to my students
9/29/2011 1:37 pm (et) Rebecca Cohen: We are getting a new batch out
9/29/2011 1:37 pm (et) Rebecca Cohen: An intern this summer was working on them
9/29/2011 1:38 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: Maybe I'll even see if I can get an IFYC started at the college I now teach at
9/29/2011 1:39 pm (et) Rebecca Cohen: IFYC has soem great programs and they are both action driven and dialogue driven
9/29/2011 1:39 pm (et) Moderator: JoyceD said: I think the work you're doing is great! I hate hate and am intolerant of intolerance. I think interfaith helps with tolerance and an end to hate among those who can be open to it.
9/29/2011 1:41 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: I see a formula: ignorance leads to fear which leads to hate which leads to violence. So I focus on eliminating ignorance by teaching young (and not so young) people about the different religions with a real focus on similarities more so than on differences.
9/29/2011 1:41 pm (et) Rebecca Cohen: Yes, I think the issue is finding ways for the interfaith world to expand. Letting people know it is out there and inviting them in
9/29/2011 1:41 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: when we see how we are all not that different from each other we can come together as one
9/29/2011 1:41 pm (et) Moderator: gogreen said: I think the interfaith community could also work toward reducing intolerance to people of no faith
9/29/2011 1:42 pm (et) Moderator: JoyceD said: Agreed, gogreen!
9/29/2011 1:42 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: it is hard to get people involved in interfaith work. I find that the majority who get involved are there because they are already involved. we end up 'preaching to the chior'
9/29/2011 1:43 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: and for a religious organization to find a way to reach out to the non-religious would be even harder!
9/29/2011 1:43 pm (et) Moderator: Mae said: I think that's very true, Laura
9/29/2011 1:43 pm (et) Rebecca Cohen: Definitely, I am sure that even here we get a mix of people who are already interested, but I think there are also a lot of people out there who don't know how to get involved
9/29/2011 1:43 pm (et) Moderator: JoyceD said: There are atheists and agnostics in UU.
9/29/2011 1:44 pm (et) Moderator: JoyceD said: We open our programs to everyone and have had some great discussions.
9/29/2011 1:44 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: that's why I find my college classroom the ideal place to introduce these ideas as I have a captive audience and not all of them are religious. they take these classes as part of their program requirements or just for a general humanities elective. But this is typically the first if not only place they would even get exposed to other religions
9/29/2011 1:45 pm (et) Moderator: JoyceD said: Do your classes include UU?
9/29/2011 1:45 pm (et) Rebecca Cohen: The classroom can be helpful, but even after deciding I was interested in interfaith, it took a professor taking me out to lunch so outside of the classroom and really laying down what I could and should do
9/29/2011 1:46 pm (et) Moderator: gogreen said: Joyce, I don't know much about UU. Can you briefly describe it?
9/29/2011 1:46 pm (et) Moderator: JoyceD said: Does that mean focusing on major religions only?
9/29/2011 1:47 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: that's why I like to introduce my students to the ongoing work of the IFC so they can continue to deepen their exposure and involvement when they leave my classroom
9/29/2011 1:47 pm (et) Moderator: JoyceD said: Rebecca, would explaining UU be appropriate in this conversation?
9/29/2011 1:47 pm (et) Rebecca Cohen: Go ahead, we are all here to learn!
9/29/2011 1:48 pm (et) Moderator: JoyceD said: Unitarian Universalism is an evolving religion with no creed - just 7 principles.
9/29/2011 1:49 pm (et) Moderator: JoyceD said: The inherent worth and dignity of every person; Justice, equity and compassion in human relations; Acceptance of one another and encouragement to spiritual growth in our congregations; A free and responsible search for truth and meaning; The right of conscience and the use of the democratic process within our congregations and in society at large; The goal of world community with peace, liberty, and justice for all; Respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part.
9/29/2011 1:49 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: I can't teach every religion in a single course so I tend to focus on the major religions. I do introduce them to many others if only by name through an assignment I call the 'religious scavenger hunt' - I give them a list of religions (including UU) and ask them to find out where the closest one to them is. They always comment how they had never even heard of many of the religions on the list, including many of the Christian denominations (or UU) and some even go beyond the task to learn some basics by exploring on the web
9/29/2011 1:49 pm (et) Moderator: JoyceD said: Unitarian Universalism (UU) draws from many sources: Direct experience of that transcending mystery and wonder, affirmed in all cultures, which moves us to a renewal of the spirit and an openness to the forces which create and uphold life; Words and deeds of prophetic women and men which challenge us to confront powers and structures of evil with justice, compassion, and the transforming power of love; Wisdom from the world's religions which inspires us in our ethical and spiritual life; Jewish and Christian teachings which call us to respond to God's love by loving our neighbors as ourselves; Humanist teachings which counsel us to heed the guidance of reason and the results of science, and warn us against idolatries of the mind and spirit; Spiritual teachings of earth-centered traditions which celebrate the sacred circle of life and instruct us to live in harmony with the rhythms of nature.
9/29/2011 1:50 pm (et) Rebecca Cohen: And, Laura, yes pointing people to already established group is helpful, but I honestly don't know where I would be if it wasn't for a specific mentor. I guess what I am trying to say is even if we younger generations are interested, lookinh in from the outside (title of the chat), is just that, we need to be guided inside
9/29/2011 1:50 pm (et) Moderator: JoyceD said: Laura, that sounds like a good process.
9/29/2011 1:51 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: I was involved in UU churches for about 10 years. I found it to be the closest one could get to being an interfaith religion
9/29/2011 1:52 pm (et) Moderator: JoyceD said: Even within UU, we have problems, because diversity = differences (in every way).
9/29/2011 1:53 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: but I became frustrated with the lack of conviction regarding God or Higher Power. So I eventually moved on. I came to the conclusion that for some, UU becomes a spiritual home but for others it is just a temporary transition place until they find what they are seeking
9/29/2011 1:54 pm (et) Moderator: JoyceD said: Yes, and many UUs acknowledge that we're a place of transition.
9/29/2011 1:54 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: But I do believe, without UU, many of the people involved in a UU church would be unchurched
9/29/2011 1:55 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: In fact, as I learn about the personal spiritual/religious leanings of my students, I am sometimes able to direct them to UU (or other religions) they'd never heard about and they find a home there
9/29/2011 1:55 pm (et) Moderator: JoyceD said: This is a problem, because we do a lot of social justice work and we don't have the numbers to make it work as well as we'd like.
9/29/2011 1:56 pm (et) Moderator: Hey all, we're almost done here, so finish up any lingering thoughts! =)
9/29/2011 1:57 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: I know that many neighborhood communities have interfaith groups for CLERGY but these clergy should then expand their activities to have interfaith activities where their congregents can come together for service work, dialogue and even interfaith worship
9/29/2011 1:58 pm (et) Moderator: JoyceD said: Thanks for the opportunity to come together here.
9/29/2011 1:58 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: I've been involved with local lay led interfaith groups but they tend to fizzel out due to lack of clergy support and encouragment
9/29/2011 1:59 pm (et) Rebecca Cohen: Thanks everyone for being here, and I would just say if there is someone interested see how you can guide them and if you are looking to get involved find a group.person who can mentor you.
9/29/2011 1:59 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: I guess most clergy are just too overworked with their own congregations to concern themselves about being involved beyond the walls of their own church
9/29/2011 1:59 pm (et) Moderator: Thank you for your participation today. Next week our chat is ‘Interreligious Prayer’ with Fr. James Gardiner of the Franciscan Friars of the Atonement and coordinator of DC’s celebration commemorating the 25th Anniversary of the Assisi Interreligious Day of Prayer for Peace. We hope to see you there! If you would like to contact our guest, please contact Rebecca at rebeccac@ifcmw.org.
9/29/2011 2:00 pm (et) Moderator: Also, this is a new effort on our part so we welcome your feedback! Any comments will be helpful. If you have any suggestion please feel free to email me at rebeccac@ifcmw.org.
9/29/2011 2:00 pm (et) Moderator: This moderated chat room is just one example of the many programs which the InterFaith Conference is doing. If you are able and willing to financially support the InterFaith Conference’s vital year-round work, please donate now using the donate button on our website – www.ifcmw.org. You can also find out more about us and sign up for our bi-monthly newsletter.

Thursday, September 22, 2011

Reflections on the High Holidays

Corresponding vide can be found at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_4omUsqnbo

9/22/2011 12:45 pm (et) Moderator: logs in on 9/22/2011 12:45 pm (et).
9/22/2011 12:51 pm (et) Simeon Kriesberg: logs in on 9/22/2011 12:51 pm (et).
9/22/2011 12:54 pm (et) Megan E: private message to Moderator: logs in on 9/22/2011 12:54 pm (et).
9/22/2011 12:57 pm (et) Laura S: private message to Moderator: logs in on 9/22/2011 12:57 pm (et).
9/22/2011 12:57 pm (et) Susan: private message to Moderator: logs in on 9/22/2011 12:57 pm (et).
9/22/2011 12:58 pm (et) sheaya: private message to Moderator: logs in on 9/22/2011 12:58 pm (et).
9/22/2011 1:00 pm (et) Moderator: Welcome! This is Rebecca from the InterFaith Conference (IFC) and I will be your moderator. As this is still new, let me explain how this will work. On the right, you will see a video playing of our current topic to get the conversation going. If you have a comment and/or question send it along to me, the moderator. As long as I deem it appropriate, the comment will be posted to everyone and the speaker will have the opportunity to answer your question.
9/22/2011 1:00 pm (et) Moderator: Today, our topic is ‘Reflections on the High Holidays.’ The reflection is from Mr. Simeon Kriesberg, At-Large Member of IFC’s Board.
9/22/2011 1:00 pm (et) Moderator: As always, I would like to remind you of the rules of our engagement. This is a respectful place where we come together to learn more about the religions of the world. Whether you agree or disagree, we welcome your comments and questions that are posed in a respectful manner. Please no profane or offensive remarks, they will not be posted. Also, this is a place of learning, so please refrain from ‘soapboxing.’ If there are any issues or questions about this, they can be submitted along with the comments pertaining to our topic. I am here to make this a pleasant and educational experience for all, so enjoy and remember there are no stupid questions, just hostile ones!
9/22/2011 1:00 pm (et) LauraG: private message to Moderator: logs in on 9/22/2011 1:00 pm (et).
9/22/2011 1:00 pm (et) Moderator: You can now view the beginning comments on the right. As you listen, please feel free to start sending questions or comments (YES, we want your comments). Also, the video will remain within the sidebar, so feel free to return to it as you wish. Our chat window automatically refreshes to keep the flow going, but if you wish to view the whole of the conversation, just hit the archive button. And lastly, PLEASE do not use double quotes as it leads to some issues.
9/22/2011 1:01 pm (et) Clark Lobenstine: logs in on 9/22/2011 1:01 pm (et).
9/22/2011 1:06 pm (et) arc4justice: private message to Moderator: logs in on 9/22/2011 1:06 pm (et).
9/22/2011 1:10 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: Do you find any commonalities between your experience of the high holidays with the other traditions?
9/22/2011 1:13 pm (et) Simeon Kriesberg: Susan, do you mean traditions of religions other than Judaism?
9/22/2011 1:14 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: excellent presentation!
9/22/2011 1:14 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: Simeon, are you a reform, conservative or orthodox Jew?
9/22/2011 1:14 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: Yes, like Islam and Ramadan?
9/22/2011 1:15 pm (et) Simeon Kriesberg: Laura, I am a Reform Jew.
9/22/2011 1:16 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: Why is the Jewish New Year observed at the start of the SEVENTH month of the Hebrew year? (it is my understanding that Passover comes in the first month (Lev 23)
9/22/2011 1:16 pm (et) Simeon Kriesberg: Susan, I cannot speak with authority on Ramadan, of course, but certainly one commonality is that Yom Kippur is a day of fasting from sundown to sundown, and fasting is also an important element of the observance of Ramadan.
9/22/2011 1:17 pm (et) Clark Lobenstine: Simeon, excellent as always! Since not all Jews will be in synagogue for the high holiday services, please share where you will be and why you've chosen to be part of a synagogue.
9/22/2011 1:17 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: Have you ever had a discussion on the similarities/differences with same Muslims about Ramadan, but I guess even Catholics and the fast days of Lent? Do you think it would make a good dialogue?
9/22/2011 1:18 pm (et) Simeon Kriesberg: You are right, Laura, the Jewish New Year does not begin on the first day of the first month of the Jewish calendar, which may seem odd to those of us familiar with the celebration of the secular New Year on January 1. My understanding is that the Jewish New Year was set to occur after the harvest, perhaps so that there would be less conflict with the agricultural life of the people.
9/22/2011 1:19 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: Susan - excellent idea for a dialogue - since fasting is such a common practice across so many different relgions
9/22/2011 1:19 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: My theory is that just as the seventh DAY of the week is a holy day, so too the seventh month of the year
9/22/2011 1:20 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: Years ago I had a student who held some apparent disdane for Judaism (based, I believe, on exaggerated stereotyping and insufficient understanding). He argued that Yom Kippur allows Jews to erase any vows made in the previous year. What is the real story behind this idea (I have a theory but would like your imput, Simeon)
9/22/2011 1:20 pm (et) Simeon Kriesberg: Thanks, Clark, for your very good question. Jewish worship is both individual and communal. On Yom Kippur, for example, we pray individually for forgiveness but we also pray communally for the ways in which we have fallen short as a people. Therefore, I find it especially important to be in a place of worship where I can pray as an individual but also as a member of the larger Jewish people.
9/22/2011 1:20 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: Yes, I mean I can see some similarities, but I feel like even exploring the differences would be so interesting
9/22/2011 1:21 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: Simeon says that it is about turning yourself whereas as a Catholic I fast do that I may turn with God through the suffering of Jesus
9/22/2011 1:21 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: Defintiely speaks to a different anthropology
9/22/2011 1:22 pm (et) Moderator: arc4justice said: Thank you so much for this excellent explanation of the Jewish High Holidays! I'm curious to know if there are specific contemplative tools you use for self-reflection. In the Christian tradition of which I am a part, we practice centering prayer, a form of meditation on a sacred word.
9/22/2011 1:22 pm (et) Simeon Kriesberg: Interestingly, the IFC has held interfaith dialogues on the topic of fasting. That particular ritual practice is common among many faiths.
9/22/2011 1:22 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: fasting clearly moves our focus away from our physical sustanence as we place more focus on our spiritual sustanance
9/22/2011 1:23 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: Laura, it can definitely be a bridge I feel, the spiritual dimension certainly emphasizes the unity of humanity and what is beyond
9/22/2011 1:25 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: Simeon, what is your recollection of observing the High Holidays as a child? Having been raised reform Jewish I recall these services as very long and boring for a child to sit through.
9/22/2011 1:26 pm (et) Simeon Kriesberg: Laura, your former student's view that Yom Kippur allows Jews to erase any vows made in the previous year is probably a misunderstanding of a prayer that is said at the beginning of Yom Kippur called the Kol Nidre. That prayer essentially asks God for forgiveness and release of vows that we may have made in the past year under duress. Traditionally, the Kol Nidre is considered a response to those periods of history during which Jews were forced to convert to other faiths and to declare their belief in other faiths. The Kol Nidre prayer was an attempt to give Jews a sense that they are forgiven for making vows of that kind under such oppressive circumstances. I can assure you that the Kol Nidre is never interpreted by Jews to mean that commitments that we have made under ordinary circumstances are rescinded.
9/22/2011 1:27 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: 'under duress' - that's the key. Thank you for explaining
9/22/2011 1:27 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: As a member of the IFC do you find that this is particularly a time to work with other faiths? Is that part of your orientation when you say you turn towards God?
9/22/2011 1:28 pm (et) Simeon Kriesberg: Thank you, arc4justice, for your interesting question about contemplative tools. I'm sure you would receive a wide range of answers from different Jews, but for me the practice of reading prayers, reflections, and scriptural passages in a quiet setting can be very helpful.
9/22/2011 1:31 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: Anyone know if tehre is the same response from non-Jews to fast with them, I had heard of some non-Muslims fasting for Ramadan?
9/22/2011 1:31 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: I've sat through Kol Nidre before, it is a beautiful service, but the fast itself seems quite strenuous...
9/22/2011 1:31 pm (et) Simeon Kriesberg: Laura, certainly my young children often have the same reaction to religious services as you recall from your childhood! At my synagogue there are a variety of services offered, some for adults, some for families with children, some for singles, some for very young children, so that practics and explanations can be tailored to the particular congregation. Even among adults, of course, different approaches to worship appeal to different people, and one of the keys to synagogue affiliation, I think, is finding a place of worship that meets your spiritual needs.
9/22/2011 1:33 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: I do still enjoy hearing the sound of the shofar and the Kol Nidre (though I no longer identify as 'Jewish'
9/22/2011 1:35 pm (et) Moderator: arc4justice said: What evidence do you see in your own community (synagogue, etc.) of how personal transformation can lead to social change?
9/22/2011 1:37 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: That sentiment resonantes greatly with me. The renewal of Catholic moral theology is focusing on virtue ethics, all about fostering the virtues within yourself so that they may come forth in action
9/22/2011 1:38 pm (et) Simeon Kriesberg: Susan, thank you for your question about whether this is particularly a time to work with other faiths. I certainly believe that to be true: the world today is fraught with so much divisiveness, and I believe that if people of faith can celebrate religious diversity and demonstrate respect and openness to the traditions of other faith communities, we can be a transformative force. One of the scriptural readings on the High Holidays is the Book of Jonah, who you may recall was called by God to perform a task and who instead attempted to flee from God. The story says that when Jonah boarded a boat to escape God, God caused the waters to become so turbulent that the boat was about to sink. Jonah told the oarsmen to throw him overboard because he was the cause of the turbulence, but (and this is to me a telling part of the story) the oarsmen refused and kept rowing. The story says that these oarsmen were not Jews, and that part of the story has always impressed upon me the responsibility that each of us has for the stranger, for the people who are not of our own faith. Having that reminder every High Holiday season is very meaningful to me.
9/22/2011 1:38 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: Or Rahner's fundamental choice...
9/22/2011 1:43 pm (et) Simeon Kriesberg: Thank you for your question about personal transformation and social change, arc4justice. I think that social change is difficult without individual change. Unless we feel the urgency for making a personal effort toward social change, we end up leaving the responsibility to others, and I don't think that is a morally defensible choice.
9/22/2011 1:43 pm (et) Moderator: arc4justice said: If there was one thing you'd like to see diverse faith communities come together around to transform our local community, what would it be?
9/22/2011 1:44 pm (et) darrow kirkpatrick: private message to Moderator: logs in on 9/22/2011 1:44 pm (et).
9/22/2011 1:46 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: You talk about having to ask others for forgiveness during this time, is it also a time for the Jewish people to forgive? I guess what I mean is this the time for both sides to bury the hatchet?
9/22/2011 1:46 pm (et) Simeon Kriesberg: One example is an IFC policy statement that the IFC Board just issued that urges greater control by gun dealers with respect to the people, particularly children, to whom guns are sold, and which then contribute to the violence that is so destructive in our local community. Another area of common faith concern might be the effect of budgetary constraints on many programs of importance to people in need.
9/22/2011 1:47 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: It could act as a good jumpstart to relations between traditions
9/22/2011 1:47 pm (et) Simeon Kriesberg: Susan, I'm not quite sure which hatchet you suggest be buried, but certainly the High Holidays are a time for asking forgiveness and for granting forgiveness.
9/22/2011 1:48 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: Susan, as a Catholic, is offering forgiveness as much as part of your confessional practice as seeking forgiveness? (interesting concept - to give what we seek to get)
9/22/2011 1:49 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: You know, its a tricky subject. We of course ask that our trespasses be forgiven as we forgive those who tresspass against us in the Lord's Prayer and the offer of forgiveness is something that should stand, but there are many questions I have about the nature of forgiveness so it is hard for me to answer
9/22/2011 1:49 pm (et) arc4justice: private message to Moderator: logs off on 9/22/2011 1:49 pm (et).
9/22/2011 1:50 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: On Yom Kippur, if Jews are asking forgiveness of how they have sinned against their fellow man, then everyone is asking forgiveness of each other - but is verbally granting that forgiveness as part of the prayers as well?
9/22/2011 1:51 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: Simeon, I wasn't thinking of a specific hatchet this year, but it is hard to deny that there are tensions that arise between traditions every year
9/22/2011 1:52 pm (et) Simeon Kriesberg: The prayers are directed toward God. The granting of forgiveness has to be something that we do with our fellow human beings. The High Holidays are intended to be a time when we actively seek out those who have wronged us and forgive them, just as we seek out those whom we have wronged and ask for forgiveness.
9/22/2011 1:53 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: sort of the same thing that is part of any 12-step program...
9/22/2011 1:53 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: Interesting concept that I once heard in class though, the idea that relationships among persons are also indicative of God
9/22/2011 1:54 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: I mean it works probably more in the Christian tradition as it models off the Trinity, but that every relation is part of a triangle, ech person relates to each other while they both simultaneously relate to God
9/22/2011 1:55 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: and each of those ties affects the other
9/22/2011 1:56 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: Susan, that's also a very Confucian idea - the interrelationship of humans in different social contexts
9/22/2011 1:56 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: Yea, it came up in a philosophy class actually, but it was a philosophy class on Dante...
9/22/2011 1:56 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: (though Confucianism does not bring any god into the picture)
9/22/2011 1:57 pm (et) Simeon Kriesberg: Susan, the concept that you describe resonates in Judaism as well: since other people are creatures of God, we must open our lives to our fellow human beings if we are to open our lives to God.
9/22/2011 1:57 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: Right, the professor usually referred to it as a person, the other, and the Other
9/22/2011 1:58 pm (et) Moderator: Alright everyone, we have just a vouple of minutes left, so please wrap up any closing thoughts
9/22/2011 1:59 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: I believe that religion is about relationships - our relationship with God/higher Power, our relationship with our fellow human beings, our relationship with our environment and our relationship with our own deeper self (the Indian religions through meditation are very good at that relationship)
9/22/2011 1:59 pm (et) Simeon Kriesberg: Laura, I think many faith traditions would embrace your sentiments.
9/22/2011 1:59 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: If we put it all in that context (which I believe is a very profound way of viewing religion) the importance of Yom Kippur and any correllary practices is definitely seen
9/22/2011 2:00 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: and thus in relationship we have a responsibilty (I think many of the Jewish laws relate to this)
9/22/2011 2:00 pm (et) Moderator: Thank you for your participation today. Next week our chat is a ‘Views from the Outside,’ featuring a reflection from me, Rebecca Cohen, IFC intern. We hope to see you there! If you would like to contact or guest, please contact me at rebeccac@ifcmw.org.
9/22/2011 2:00 pm (et) Moderator: Also, this is a new effort on our part so we welcome your feedback! Any comments will be helpful. If you have any suggestion please feel free to email me at rebeccac@ifcmw.org.
9/22/2011 2:00 pm (et) Moderator: This moderated chat room is just one example of the many programs which the InterFaith Conference is doing. If you are able and willing to financially support the InterFaith Conference’s vital year-round work, please donate now using the donate button on our website – www.ifcmw.org. You can also find out more about us and sign up for our bi-monthly newsletter.

Thursday, September 15, 2011

Sacred Spaces and Religious Freedom

The corresponding video can be found at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oA5C2l8hq40

9/15/2011 12:45 pm (et) Moderator: logs in on 9/15/2011 12:45 pm (et).
9/15/2011 12:45 pm (et) LauraGomez: private message to Moderator: logs in on 9/15/2011 12:45 pm (et).
9/15/2011 12:51 pm (et) Susan: private message to Moderator: logs in on 9/15/2011 12:51 pm (et).
9/15/2011 12:56 pm (et) Megan E: private message to Moderator: logs in on 9/15/2011 12:56 pm (et).
9/15/2011 12:56 pm (et) Bill Aiken: logs in on 9/15/2011 12:56 pm (et).
9/15/2011 12:56 pm (et) Laura S: private message to Moderator: logs in on 9/15/2011 12:56 pm (et).
9/15/2011 1:00 pm (et) Moderator: Welcome! This is Rebecca from the InterFaith Conference (IFC) and I will be your moderator. As this is still new, let me explain how this will work. On the right, you will see a video playing of our current topic to get the conversation going. If you have a comment and/or question send it along to me, the moderator. As long as I deem it appropriate, the comment will be posted to everyone and the speaker will have the opportunity to answer your question.
9/15/2011 1:00 pm (et) sheaya: private message to Moderator: logs in on 9/15/2011 1:00 pm (et).
9/15/2011 1:00 pm (et) Moderator: Today, our topic is ‘Sacred Spaces and Religious Freedom.’ The reflection is from Mr. Bill Aiken, Chair of IFC's Board and Executive Director of SGI Buddhist Culture Center here in Washington, DC. He has also written a piece on the subject in our bi-monthly e-newsletter that is being disbursed this week.
9/15/2011 1:00 pm (et) Moderator: As always, I would like to remind you of the rules of our engagement. This is a respectful place where we come together to learn more about the religions of the world. Whether you agree or disagree, we welcome your comments and questions that are posed in a respectful manner. Please no profane or offensive remarks, they will not be posted. Also, this is a place of learning, so please refrain from ‘soapboxing.’ If there are any issues or questions about this, they can be submitted along with the comments pertaining to our topic. I am here to make this a pleasant and educational experience for all, so enjoy and remember there are no stupid questions, just hostile ones!
9/15/2011 1:01 pm (et) Moderator: You can now view the beginning comments on the right. As you listen, please feel free to start sending questions or comments (YES, we want your comments). Also, the video will remain within the sidebar, so feel free to return to it as you wish. Our chat window automatically refreshes to keep the flow going, but if you wish to view the whole of the conversation, just hit the archive button. And lastly, PLEASE do not use double quotes as it leads to some issues.
9/15/2011 1:02 pm (et) Clark Lobenstine: logs in on 9/15/2011 1:02 pm (et).
9/15/2011 1:08 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: Where do you think the line is, deciding what is included under these laws and what is not?
9/15/2011 1:09 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: And how would we decide where the line is?
9/15/2011 1:10 pm (et) Bill Aiken: The RLUIPA says that if any local laws place a "substantial burden" on religious exercise, then the state must prove a "Compelling interest" and that it is using the least restrictive means of advancing that interest.
9/15/2011 1:10 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: also have to get at any possible underlying ulterior motives for complaints - are they really legitimate complaints?
9/15/2011 1:10 pm (et) Bill Aiken: As with most issues, the history of court cases gives us the guidelines for knowing where the lines are. It's nt a perfect system, but it moreor less works.
9/15/2011 1:11 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: Those are such vague terms...and I guess we could say a religious building is also vague...
9/15/2011 1:11 pm (et) Bill Aiken: It is sometimes hard to know if complaints are driven by legit concerns or fear of the other.
9/15/2011 1:11 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: I mean we could even extend it to the idea of sacred ground, but that sounds almost like the arguement used against Park 51
9/15/2011 1:11 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: Do religions have MORE rights than other places (due to protection under first amendment rights)?
9/15/2011 1:12 pm (et) Bill Aiken: YEs, with the RLUIPA the strict scrutiy adopted in the law gives a higher level of protenction for religious use.
9/15/2011 1:14 pm (et) Bill Aiken: There are a lot og grey areas with this. AS in most cases you hope to work it out among the concerned parties. Otherwise we look for the courts to decide.
9/15/2011 1:15 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: Laura, would you think noise is a legitimate objection?
9/15/2011 1:15 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: Bells? The call to prayer?
9/15/2011 1:17 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: If noise is an issue, that's no reason to prohibit the space existing, only to use the 'least restrictive' means to keep the noice levels down
9/15/2011 1:17 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: So, a mosque, for instance, typically cannot broadcast their call to prayer out into the neighborhood but may only broadcast it inside the building (over a PA system, for instance)
9/15/2011 1:18 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: similarly, I imagine that if people complain about bells from a church, to be fair, the same rules must apply - no bells that can be heard throughout the neighborhood = equal treatment
9/15/2011 1:18 pm (et) Bill Aiken: Regarding bells and calls to prayer, a religion would need to prove that an ordinance prohibiting them was placing a substantial burden on an important part of their religios practice.
9/15/2011 1:18 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: Yes, I was thinking abotu a conversation I had with an imam, he says they can't broadcast the call to prayer outside the building, but that it does lose some of the sentiment because of that
9/15/2011 1:18 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: Bill, then the question would be, what is substantial?
9/15/2011 1:19 pm (et) Bill Aiken: Exactly. proving substantial burden is not always easily done, especially when it relates to areas that may or may not be essential. Again we wind up leaving it to the courts.
9/15/2011 1:20 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: As a Catholic myself, I do find the bells to be important. In considering the liturgy of the hours, the 12 and 6's are a time to take a moment from life and the bells remind me of that, I can assume the Muslim call to prayer acts in the same way...
9/15/2011 1:21 pm (et) Bill Aiken: In DC a Presbyterian Church appealed an ordinance limiting their soup kitchen. They appealed successfully saying that feeding the poor was essential to their faith and preventing them was placing substantial burden. The courts agreed.
9/15/2011 1:22 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: I guess moving out of DC somewhat, or a lot, the minaret ban going around Europe is an interesting topic I think
9/15/2011 1:22 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: Got an example where the religious institution LOST the argument?
9/15/2011 1:23 pm (et) Bill Aiken: Unfortunately, none come to mind at the moment.
9/15/2011 1:23 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: If they are going to ban minarets, then they ought to apply the same principle to church steeples (they are equivalent structures)
9/15/2011 1:24 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: They make a point in saying the minarets are not essential to Islam, but it is a part of the culture for the Muslims practice. I assume culture and religion affect one another
9/15/2011 1:24 pm (et) Bill Aiken: I think this type of ban is precidely the kinid of thing that RLUIPA would protect. In Europe this amounts to a 'cultura' issue or historic preservation.
9/15/2011 1:25 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: IOW, they can't single out one religion for prohibition (though Susan's example is one in Europe where they may not have the same constitutional protection of religion that we have in America)
9/15/2011 1:26 pm (et) Moderator: Megan E said: I'm curious, is there a legitimate reason that a community might have for banning minarets?
9/15/2011 1:26 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: Who are 'they' to say what is and is not 'essential' for a given religion? Shouldn't we let the religion speak for itself on such matters?
9/15/2011 1:26 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: That would be a sticky situation though, wouldn't it Laura? Where is the end of the line then?
9/15/2011 1:26 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: Megan, I suppose one might argue that it destroys the city skyline
9/15/2011 1:27 pm (et) Bill Aiken: YEs, I think so. But it raises an interesting question. If there was a ban on new religious structures over x', then a Mosque would first have to prove that the absence of a minaret was a substantial burden. Only then would the state have to defend their action as advancing a compelling government interest.
9/15/2011 1:28 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: Ah, Susan, then we are back to the question of 'is it a religion' that then deserves this extra protection
9/15/2011 1:28 pm (et) Bill Aiken: On the other hand a ban on minarents without a ban on new church steeples would be so blatantly discriminatory on the face that it would not fly in the US.
9/15/2011 1:29 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: what about when a small religious group wants to meet in members homes? What sort of issues has that raised?
9/15/2011 1:29 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: But would it, Bill? There are times when people try to ban mosques, but don't worry about churches?
9/15/2011 1:30 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: I imagine parking might be one such issue. But how might that be different from when a person holds a party at their house?
9/15/2011 1:31 pm (et) Bill Aiken: This has raised a number of issues. There are sometimes parlking limits, etc. However the courts have ruled in the case of a rabbi holding a service in his home that this is protected use under RLUIPA. As long as the primary use of the place was a residence and not a church/temple, etc.
9/15/2011 1:31 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: a zoning issue?
9/15/2011 1:33 pm (et) Bill Aiken: There are indeed times when people try to ban mosques and not churches. This is why RLUIPA exists. But sometimes the cases stiull get messy.,
9/15/2011 1:33 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: Park 51 anyone
9/15/2011 1:34 pm (et) Bill Aiken: There is a case of a church in PG County that cannot get a permit for construction. It became a RLUIPA case. Even after the court ruled in the churches favor it took a long time for the PG CO govt to even begin to move.
9/15/2011 1:34 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: But then again, going back to the question about what is sacred space, because a lot of language dealing with the sacred has been used with Ground Zero
9/15/2011 1:35 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: what sort to complaints were wages against building that church?
9/15/2011 1:36 pm (et) Bill Aiken: While Ground Zero may be considered sacred space to some, it is now a public monument like the Liberty Bell. It falls under that type of zoning definition. IT is not a church.
9/15/2011 1:36 pm (et) Bill Aiken: The complaints had to do with its proximity to a local stream, but the real issue (as it often is) was traffic and parking.
9/15/2011 1:37 pm (et) Bill Aiken: mainly traffic.
9/15/2011 1:39 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: I wonder is parking and traffic were even the REAL real reason. What if it were going to be a store? Do you suspect that they really were just looking for a legitimate reason to keep that church from their neighborhood (what denomination was it?)
9/15/2011 1:39 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: But when we talk about those communities not in the DC area, or not in the city area in general, can that really be a complaint?
9/15/2011 1:40 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: I bet these can turn into issues not even religiously related, but ethnic as well, which I am sure complicates the issue
9/15/2011 1:41 pm (et) Bill Aiken: The church is a Seventh Day Adventist Church. I do believe that people in suburban locitons especially really do not want more traffic. I learned here in the District while going through some conflicts with our neighbors over our building permit, that the only thing neighbors hate more than a church coming in is a school or day care center.
9/15/2011 1:41 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: the phrase 'not in my backyard'
9/15/2011 1:41 pm (et) Bill Aiken: Exactly.
9/15/2011 1:43 pm (et) Bill Aiken: There are some real inconveniences that a church (or school) can create for a neighborhood. This is also why there is a law to protect the religious use, so that the church does not need to be popular to win approval.
9/15/2011 1:43 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: I imagine the differece between a building being a store vs a religious building is a matter of what percentage of the surrounding population will be served by it. The store would serve everyone but not a religious structure for a specific religious group
9/15/2011 1:43 pm (et) Bill Aiken: I think that is a good point.
9/15/2011 1:43 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: If the structure will serve many, then traffic and parking can be overlooked as a reasonable sacrifice
9/15/2011 1:43 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: But then again, a church or religious building, for the most part pops up in areas where it will cater to the people.
9/15/2011 1:44 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: A mosque is built where it is easily accessible to a good number of a Muslim community, an Orthodox synagogue must be built within walking distance of those who go there
9/15/2011 1:45 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: If someone is trying ot build it, there must be an audience for it already?
9/15/2011 1:45 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: Susan... or where it will cater to the hope of attracting the local people (thus a concern that the new religious group might be seeking to convert the residents)
9/15/2011 1:45 pm (et) Bill Aiken: I agree
9/15/2011 1:45 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: I don't think that concern is well-founded though
9/15/2011 1:47 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: For the most part people are looking to worship, building structures take energy and money...
9/15/2011 1:47 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: or, perhaps a more likely concern, once the new religious place is there, they will then attract more of 'their kind' into the neighborhood and the people there don't want the demographics of their neighborhood to change
9/15/2011 1:48 pm (et) Bill Aiken: Yes, there is almost always an existing community to be served, but it may not be in the same neighborhood where the church is built
9/15/2011 1:48 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: Yea, that sounds very plausible, it's like wanting to make sure no Mexican restaurants pop up in Little Italy (sorry just an example my sister shared from Philly)
9/15/2011 1:49 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: so we look for all sorts of reasons - more or less legitimate - to delay the inevitable of changing religious and cultural demographics
9/15/2011 1:49 pm (et) Bill Aiken: BUt I think there are MExican (and Vietnamese) restaurants right around the corner from the ITalian MArket in Philly ;-)
9/15/2011 1:50 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: Yea, my sister has told there were some old timers who aren't so happy about it....
9/15/2011 1:50 pm (et) Bill Aiken: Change is never easy.
9/15/2011 1:50 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: Restaurants are different from relgious places because Americans love all sorts of cultural foods. But only Muslims would go to a mosque, or SDA to an SDA church, etc.
9/15/2011 1:51 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: you don't have to be Mexican to go to a Mexican restaurant or Chinese to go to a Chinese restaurant... you get it
9/15/2011 1:52 pm (et) Bill Aiken: Which is why the additional protection is needed. YOu rarely need protection for that which is popular.
9/15/2011 1:52 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: So the laws are meant to bring religious buildings on par with other establishments?
9/15/2011 1:53 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: to 'level the playing field'
9/15/2011 1:53 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: More like an affirmative action for buildings
9/15/2011 1:53 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: and for the people who will use those buildings
9/15/2011 1:54 pm (et) Bill Aiken: It it really to protect religious expression from being burdened by other governmnetal concerns.
9/15/2011 1:54 pm (et) Bill Aiken: That is other concerns that are not compelling.
9/15/2011 1:54 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: Bill, in the title of the Act, what does 'Instutionalized Person's' refer to?
9/15/2011 1:55 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: What if one says that your religious institution is being comprimised by another in the area?
9/15/2011 1:55 pm (et) Bill Aiken: INstitutionalized PErsons refers to those being held by the state -- usually prisoners.
9/15/2011 1:55 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: Susan, the rights of one group infringing on the rights of another simply by being close to the other?
9/15/2011 1:56 pm (et) Bill Aiken: The law seeks to provide basic protection tp their religious expression.
9/15/2011 1:56 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: I don't really know of a situation, but I am sure it has been claimed
9/15/2011 1:56 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: It seems odd to me that both groups are covered by the same act. What's the connection between 'religious land use' and 'institutionalized persons'?
9/15/2011 1:57 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: OK, never mind
9/15/2011 1:57 pm (et) Moderator: Alright everyone, we have just a couple of minutes keft so please finish any lingering thoughts
9/15/2011 1:57 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: Bill, is RLUIPA a local or national law?
9/15/2011 1:58 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: (protection)
9/15/2011 1:58 pm (et) Bill Aiken: It actually goes to the legislative history. But these are two areas (land use and prisoners) where the state has a need to regulate but the ones being regulated have rights to be protected. there
9/15/2011 1:58 pm (et) Bill Aiken: RLUIPA is a federal law
9/15/2011 1:59 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: when was it enacted?
9/15/2011 1:59 pm (et) Bill Aiken: Sep 2000
9/15/2011 1:59 pm (et) Moderator: Thank you for your participation today. Next week our chat is a ‘Reflection on the High Holidays,’ with Mr. Simeon Kriesberg, At-Large Member of IFC’s Board. We hope to see you there! If you would like to contact or guest, please contact me at rebeccac@ifcmw.org.
9/15/2011 2:00 pm (et) Bill Aiken: Thank you everyone.
9/15/2011 2:00 pm (et) Moderator: Also, this is a new effort on our part so we welcome your feedback! Any comments will be helpful. If you have any suggestion please feel free to email me at rebeccac@ifcmw.org.
9/15/2011 2:00 pm (et) Moderator: This moderated chat room is just one example of the many programs which the InterFaith Conference is doing. If you are able and willing to financially support the InterFaith Conference’s vital year-round work, please donate now using the donate button on our website – www.ifcmw.org. You can also find out more about us and sign up for our bi-monthly newsletter.