The corresponding video can be viewed at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRoTjaIF2vk
6/3/2011 11:46 am (et) Hengist: private message to Moderator: logs in on 6/3/2011 11:46 am (et).
6/3/2011 11:46 am (et) Moderator: logs in on 6/3/2011 11:46 am (et).
6/3/2011 11:46 am (et) Arif: private message to Moderator: logs in on 6/3/2011 11:46 am (et).
6/3/2011 11:47 am (et) christa_levko: private message to Moderator: logs in on 6/3/2011 11:47 am (et).
6/3/2011 11:49 am (et) Mary: private message to Moderator: logs in on 6/3/2011 11:49 am (et).
6/3/2011 11:54 am (et) Johari Abdul Malik: logs in on 6/3/2011 11:54 am (et).
6/3/2011 11:55 am (et) Laura S: private message to Moderator: logs in on 6/3/2011 11:55 am (et).
6/3/2011 11:57 am (et) Moderator: Laura S said: Greetings to Johari (we met last fall at your class at NOVA)
6/3/2011 11:57 am (et) Johari Abdul Malik: hi
6/3/2011 11:57 am (et) Johari Abdul Malik: Glad you could make it
6/3/2011 11:58 am (et) Susan: private message to Moderator: logs in on 6/3/2011 11:58 am (et).
6/3/2011 11:59 am (et) Hussong: private message to Moderator: logs in on 6/3/2011 11:59 am (et).
6/3/2011 11:59 am (et) Moderator: Welcome! This is Rebecca from the InterFaith Conference (IFC) and I will be your moderator. As this is still new, let me explain how this will work. On the right, you will see a video playing of our current topic to get the conversation going. If you have a comment and/or question send it along to me, the moderator. As long as I deem it appropriate, the comment will be posted to everyone and the speaker will have the opportunity to answer your question.
6/3/2011 12:00 pm (et) Moderator: Today, our topic is ‘An Islamic View of Religious (Non)Violence,’ with Imam Johari Abdul Malik, Muslim member of IFC’s Board and one of the imams at Dar Al-Hijrah. For more information on his work visit: http://www.imamjohari.com/A_Call_To_Non-Violent_Resistance/Welcome.html.
6/3/2011 12:00 pm (et) ssawmell: private message to Moderator: logs in on 6/3/2011 12:00 pm (et).
6/3/2011 12:00 pm (et) Moderator: As always, I would like to remind you of the rules of our engagement. This is a respectful place where we come together to learn more about the religions of the world. Whether you agree or disagree, we welcome your comments and questions that are posed in a respectful manner. Please no profane or offensive remarks, they will not be posted. Also, this is a place of learning, so please refrain from ‘soapboxing.’ If there are any issues or questions about this, they can be submitted along with the comments pertaining to our topic. I am here to make this a pleasant and educational experience for all, so enjoy and remember there are no stupid questions, just hostile ones!
6/3/2011 12:01 pm (et) Moderator: You can now view the beginning comments on the right. As you listen, please feel free to start sending questions or comments (YES, we want your comments). Also, the video will remain within the sidebar, so feel free to return to it as you wish. Our chat window automatically refreshes to keep the flow going, but if you wish to view the whole of the conversation, just hit the archive button. And lastly, PLEASE do not use double quotes as it led to some issues.
6/3/2011 12:02 pm (et) Denise: private message to Moderator: logs in on 6/3/2011 12:02 pm (et).
6/3/2011 12:06 pm (et) Moderator: Hussong said: May I ask if you are a Sunni or a Shi'a?
6/3/2011 12:07 pm (et) Moderator: ssawmell said: Imam, given Rep. Peter King's Islamophic hearing on radicalization, and his intention to hold another hearing focused on the growth of Islamic militancy in American prisons, are you and other Islamic leaders (such as Imams Hendi and Feisal) reaching out in the spirit of dialogue to King's chief of staff or to the representative himself?
6/3/2011 12:12 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: I do not consider myself to be a shia therefore I guess that makes me sunni
6/3/2011 12:13 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: The king hearings I think gave a great opening to begin a dialogue around radicalization.
6/3/2011 12:13 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: what PERCENTAGE of those books are about the Prophet's battles compared to the amount of writing about other aspects of his life? IOW, how out of proportion is it to be referencing these books vs the others? And why do you think it is the battles that are so much more appealing?
6/3/2011 12:13 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: (I think it is simply human nature to be more excited by stories of battles and violence than of peaceful coexistence (just look at our video games and movies)
6/3/2011 12:13 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: King's staff is not that open to much dialogue but others have come forward to dialogue.
6/3/2011 12:14 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: There is a new interfaith effort called Shoulder to shoulder with nation religious leaders
6/3/2011 12:15 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: Laura: I think the popular narrative of battle comes out of a history of oppressed groups looking at his life like Americans look a westerns-cowboys and indians
6/3/2011 12:16 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: It is an immature human thing.
6/3/2011 12:16 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: What does jihad mean in your narrative?
6/3/2011 12:17 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: Jihad- the root - Ja-ha-da in arabic to struggle to strive. My problem is that this is too often seen as violence.
6/3/2011 12:17 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: The Prophet spent 13 years of his 23 years as a prophet in non-violent resistance inMecca
6/3/2011 12:17 pm (et) Moderator: Hengist said: Battles appeal to a certain level of desperation as well. It is easier to dismiss an opponent's arguments in a context of violence, than in a context of dialogue. And when we feel disadvantaged we have an excuse to kick over the table of negotiation. It is notable that the Prophet Muhammad never rejected dialogue.
6/3/2011 12:18 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: ironically, the nameIsrael
6/3/2011 12:18 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: Indeed
6/3/2011 12:18 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: What is the struggle in Islam?
6/3/2011 12:19 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: The jihad al-Akbar: the greatest Jihad is against the weakness of self.
6/3/2011 12:19 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: I am not saying that islam is passive in nature. but most fighting is defensive in the history of the prophet M.
6/3/2011 12:20 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: The battles that followed him unfortunately were not the best example of that tradition.
6/3/2011 12:20 pm (et) Moderator: christa_levko said: It seems popular culture promotes violence as a way to overcome self weakness - do you think that's where a lot of the violence in Islam comes from? If not why do you think it is prevalent?
6/3/2011 12:21 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: Kind of that macho image, Christa?
6/3/2011 12:22 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: The popular narrative is a medieval narrative
6/3/2011 12:22 pm (et) Moderator: Hussong said: I'm interested in the historical context of the revelation in the Qur'an that pertains to various battles, Badr, Uhud, etc. I encounter a lot of people who think the Qur'an is violent in nature but do not understand the timeline of revelation and the period of events that happened when Allah's message was revealed.
6/3/2011 12:22 pm (et) Moderator: christa_levko said: Yeah, I'm not sure if the media image of masculinity is as popular elsewhere as it is in America but it seems to be a major factor in volence here
6/3/2011 12:23 pm (et) Moderator: Hussong said: I think this contributes a lot to that false 'understanding of jihad' who think it is all about waging wars, not a defense
6/3/2011 12:23 pm (et) Moderator: Hengist said: It could be argued that those who turn aside from the greater Jihad to devote themselves to warfare against those who reject Islam have fallen away from Islam in favor of a worship of violence, which alas, is hardly unique to Islam as a social phenomena.
6/3/2011 12:23 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: Karen Armstong, in her book 'The Battle for God' (about fundamentalism in the three monotheistic traditions) observes that the modern Islamic militancy is a response to colonialism. Would you agree with this Johari?
6/3/2011 12:23 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: The Quran prohibited fighting for the early days of the revelation and then inMedina
6/3/2011 12:24 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: Fight to convert or to establish Islam on people is prohibited by the Quran. But often Muslims forget this
6/3/2011 12:24 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: I think the violence is a errant response to colonialism.
6/3/2011 12:25 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: That forgetfulness doesn't seem to be a limited focus...the Catholic Church has never officially condoned forced baptism but look at Portugal in 1492
6/3/2011 12:25 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: Qurans says that Allah gives soveriegnity to whomever He chooses.
6/3/2011 12:25 pm (et) Moderator: Hengist said: Christ did not have a home, and was a wanderer, while Muhammad had accepted responsibility for the safety and well- being of a community. How can tese two be compared? It is in their similarities, rather than their differences that discoveries need to be made.
6/3/2011 12:26 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: The media has negative effect too often on many of us. But our textual understanding
6/3/2011 12:26 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: I think the narratives of all of the prophets and guides have great similarities.
6/3/2011 12:27 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: In a far future world, what do you think would end the Islamic violence? If they could have what they want from this violence, what would that be?
6/3/2011 12:27 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: IOW, what would it take to from US to end their violence?
6/3/2011 12:27 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: Jesus was fatherless and Muhammad was fatherless. They where all shepards
6/3/2011 12:28 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: I think it is important to note that they saw something wrong with the world and set out to better it...I do firmly believe that of the great prophets and guides as you have called them
6/3/2011 12:28 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: Violence will never deliver what people really want. Violence begets violence. The prophet when he opensMecca
6/3/2011 12:28 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: Do they even know what they are fighting for?
6/3/2011 12:29 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: One of failures of Al-Qaeda is that they do not have an end game.
6/3/2011 12:29 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: Do they want the whole world to be converted to Islam or do they just want us to stop trying to force their cultures to adopt our form of democracy?
6/3/2011 12:29 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: I think its been masked...I would not disagree that much of the violence is politically based, a remnant of colonialism, but it is clouded with religion.
6/3/2011 12:30 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: Violence is the fruit of anger not the seed of community
6/3/2011 12:30 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: Religion speaks to people in a unique way, so people can use and abuse it.
6/3/2011 12:31 pm (et) Moderator: Hengist said: One problem is that so few people on any
side have a clear picture of what an end to
conflict would look like. Certainly not in
everybody agreeing to accept one
religious label or another, which could not
happen in a context of violence, anyway.
6/3/2011 12:31 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: I take issue even with the concept of 'Just War' in islam
6/3/2011 12:31 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: War is by definition - A harm
6/3/2011 12:32 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: The prophet M tells his companions after surviving a battle says you have just left the lesser jihad and are going to the greater jihad.
6/3/2011 12:33 pm (et) ameriAKR: private message to Moderator: logs in on 6/3/2011 12:33 pm (et).
6/3/2011 12:33 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: The non-violent narrative of the Prophet M is now being brought forward.
6/3/2011 12:33 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: the concept of 'just war' is also present in Christianity and in Sikhism. Other religions preach pacifism no matter what. Is there never a righteous reason to stand up for what is right? (not that many wars actually do this but at least in theory)?
6/3/2011 12:33 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: Check out Abdul-Ghaffar Khan - he is considered the Muslm Ghandi.
6/3/2011 12:34 pm (et) solfrid: private message to Moderator: logs in on 6/3/2011 12:34 pm (et).
6/3/2011 12:34 pm (et) Moderator: Hengist said: My understanding of the Prophet's life suggested that the Prophet believed that the best war was not as good as a bad peace. Of course, Muhammad believed that God was on Muhammad's side. War merely interferes with the normal exchange of ideas.
6/3/2011 12:34 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: Just War theory has always been used to go to war rather than to stop a war
6/3/2011 12:34 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: Would you compare the literal approach to Jihad to the more fundamentalist strains of Christianity say? They both seem to have the same kind of mentality in which we look for the most obvious meaning to text
6/3/2011 12:34 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: I guess we can contrast MLKjr's non-violent resistence with that of the Nation of Islam in America (under Malcom X before his conversion)
6/3/2011 12:35 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: The movement of Islam only gained ground during periods of peace. This is way he made many concessions in the peace treaty of Hudiabiyyah
6/3/2011 12:36 pm (et) Moderator: Hengist said: It is unfortunate that 'Just' war has been a label demanded by society so that war makers have included a just war formulation. The Kaiser regarded the Belgian resistance to German invasion as criminal.
6/3/2011 12:36 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: Johari, great point about just war theory always being used to go to war
6/3/2011 12:36 pm (et) Moderator: Hussong said: Today Islam is rapidly expanding and unfortunately there is much violence though.
6/3/2011 12:36 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: The comparison of MLK and MX i'm not sure. Malcolm X talked tough but never engaged in any act of violence. The NOI was banned from carry weapons.
6/3/2011 12:37 pm (et) Moderator: christa_levko said: It seems in any violent activity there is someone who does not see it as 'just'
6/3/2011 12:37 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: The lessons from Tahrir sq inEgypt , Tunisia
6/3/2011 12:38 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: all bark and no bite? I did not know that. However that sort of rhetoric will naturally rile up some folks to fight, even if the rules forbid such action (perhaps that's what we are seeing in today's militant Islam?)
6/3/2011 12:38 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: Al-Qaeda and Taliban tactics are rejected by most Muslims while they agree with the critique of their own government.
6/3/2011 12:39 pm (et) Moderator: ameriAKR said: i think there are a lot of reasons for the "much violence" that still require solutions..however basic
6/3/2011 12:40 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: The PM=Muhammad said Jihad is to speak truth to power
6/3/2011 12:40 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: When people sit on their hands until problems are extreme then they justify violence.
6/3/2011 12:41 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: Even I felt that WE should attack Qaddafy - but we waited for decades - we missed the opportunity
6/3/2011 12:41 pm (et) Moderator: ameriAKR said: but are there not different forms of jihad....was your reference to all forms or simply more aggressive forms?
6/3/2011 12:41 pm (et) Moderator: Hengist said: Perhaps real peace will come as women are more empowered, not just in the Islamic countries, but all over the world. Certainly the more dedicated purveyors of violence have not wanted women's voices heard.
6/3/2011 12:42 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: Patience doesn't mean sitting on your hands.
6/3/2011 12:42 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: The spirit of resistance to wrong must be birthed in th hearts of everyone.
6/3/2011 12:42 pm (et) Moderator: Hengist said: 'We must wage peace'
6/3/2011 12:43 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: Then the fear of the loss of our life or property will allow us in faith to resist.
6/3/2011 12:43 pm (et) Moderator: christa_levko said: to have the truth heard, all need to be hear... so I would agree with Hengist
6/3/2011 12:43 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: I would be interested in your reaction to the recent uprisings in theMiddle East .
6/3/2011 12:43 pm (et) MSH786: private message to Moderator: logs in on 6/3/2011 12:43 pm (et).
6/3/2011 12:43 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: Unfortunately, we must teach the techiques of waging peace.
6/3/2011 12:43 pm (et) Moderator: Hussong said: How do you think the violence against Sufis in Northern Africa,Pakistan
6/3/2011 12:44 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: The Arab spring is giving rise to the power of NV resistance.
6/3/2011 12:44 pm (et) Moderator: Hussong said: And also the destruction of dargahs as well?
6/3/2011 12:44 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: The sectarian violence is always a divide and conquer strategy
6/3/2011 12:45 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: The PM did not attack the Christians inEthiopia
6/3/2011 12:46 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: I believe that PM would not distroy the holy places of others.
6/3/2011 12:46 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: Literacy is a critical step. Most of the Muslims in the world are illiterate
6/3/2011 12:46 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: Divide and conquer is a strategy that we too have used - first we 'demonize' the enemy (the 'axis of evil') thus making us feel we are being righteous to go to war and fight and kill the enemy
6/3/2011 12:47 pm (et) Moderator: ameriAKR said: does that go to anything bid'a in nature or form?
6/3/2011 12:47 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: The real axis of evil: poverty, disease and ignoranc
6/3/2011 12:47 pm (et) Moderator: Hengist said: For me, 'waging' peace means honoring Muhammad in non-Muslim contexts, upholding Islamic values as worth emulating, whatever one's faith background, and acknowledging that Islam. like the older Abrahamic beliefs, is not monolithic.
6/3/2011 12:47 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: then we only end up making our enemy feel on the defensive and thus waging a 'just war' or jihad
6/3/2011 12:48 pm (et) Moderator: Sorry everyone, I posted a bit out of order, please read Laura S's comments as one.
6/3/2011 12:48 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: In America we must model to the world how we live together and that our faiths make our understanding of our individual faiths deeper
6/3/2011 12:48 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: in response to OUR aggression
6/3/2011 12:48 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: I was in Afghanistan recently
6/3/2011 12:49 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: Many think that US is like USSR. Anti-god.
6/3/2011 12:49 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: When I told that Islam in a free society is growing they were shocked.
6/3/2011 12:50 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: Even from the theatre of war there is a great witness.
6/3/2011 12:50 pm (et) Moderator: christa_levko said: that's not suprising - the news stories that come from America are all intolerance and hate
6/3/2011 12:50 pm (et) Moderator: Hengist said: The extremists on either side want Muslims in America to be alienated, rather than accepted as a new, valued, enhancement of American life.
6/3/2011 12:51 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: American soldiers are coming home more educated
6/3/2011 12:51 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: We have to fight the battle of diseducation about Islam inAmerica
6/3/2011 12:51 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: Not the CNN/Fox version ofAmerica
6/3/2011 12:52 pm (et) Moderator: Hussong said: So what can we do as young adults in college to spread awareness about Islam and peace?
6/3/2011 12:52 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: We must speak to the world about how we live and worship inAmerica
6/3/2011 12:52 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: Many of them will be shocked.
6/3/2011 12:53 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: IFC is a great platform but we can't keep this dialogue a secret
6/3/2011 12:53 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: we may need to change our public face - what the world sees of us is materialism, capitalism, sexual immorality...
6/3/2011 12:53 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: greedy individualism
6/3/2011 12:54 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: College is a great place for the Universe of City. Hold dialogues, programs and get to know people from difference backgrounds. This will give you the background to confront ignorance,
6/3/2011 12:54 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: and a superiority attitude that says we think we are 'number 1' in the world
6/3/2011 12:54 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: We care tweet our reality.
6/3/2011 12:55 pm (et) Moderator: Hengist said: This is not just a problem in the Islamic world. Anybody studying our media, advertising, etc. would get a warped idea of American values, including Americans.
6/3/2011 12:55 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: Also people inAmerica
6/3/2011 12:55 pm (et) Moderator: christa_levko said: every country thinks they are the best - that's not a new concept... but how would we go about changing our image to other countries?
6/3/2011 12:56 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: Pew did a studied and published that most Muslims in the world are not anti-america.they are anti-oppression
6/3/2011 12:56 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: do they then seeAmerica
6/3/2011 12:57 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: Old ideas have merit. But social networking got Obama elected, help the Tahrir movement and can help us spread peace and understanding
6/3/2011 12:57 pm (et) Moderator: Hi All, it is that time of the week, where we must wrap up, so please finish any lingering thoughts.
6/3/2011 12:57 pm (et) Moderator: Hengist said: We need to tell the story that the Best of America comes from being receptive to the Best of other countries and cultures.
6/3/2011 12:57 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: The Americans that people meet in their home countries generally make a good impression on the locals...
6/3/2011 12:58 pm (et) Moderator: Hussong said: This is very true. I was inIstanbul
6/3/2011 12:58 pm (et) Moderator: Hussong said: They saw the culture as liberal and embracing, but did not feel as though the American government backed that
6/3/2011 12:58 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: always, when we get to know the 'other' as a real person, we get a better impression
6/3/2011 12:58 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: And we need to explain to the world that the American experiment has made mistakes but we got at lot right eventually.
6/3/2011 12:58 pm (et) Moderator: Hengist said: 'You don't trust our government? Well
neither do we!'
6/3/2011 12:59 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: The term Muslim world has to go too. There is only one world and we all live in it
6/3/2011 12:59 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: The Quran says we were created to know each other....
6/3/2011 1:00 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: Wow, it has been an hour already. This was wonderful
6/3/2011 1:00 pm (et) Moderator: Hengist said: When we truly know each other, we are closer to knowing God.
6/3/2011 1:00 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: it is our true nature. ....Good
6/3/2011 1:01 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: The meaning of Islam is to be at peace with that true self...
6/3/2011 1:02 pm (et) Moderator: Thank you for your participation today. If you would like to reach our speaker please contact me at rebeccac@ifcmw.org. Next week we will be taking a break due to some extenuating circumstances, but we will return the following week, June 17, to hear Rev. Clark Lobenstine, Executive Director of IFC, on “How to Dialogue.”
6/3/2011 1:02 pm (et) Moderator: Also, this is a new effort on our part so we welcome your feedback! Any comments will be helpful. If you have any suggestion please feel free to email me at rebeccac@ifcmw.org.
6/3/2011 1:02 pm (et) Moderator: If you are interested in finding out more about our organization please feel free to browse our website: www.ifcmw.org and sign up for our bi-monthly e-newsletter by emailing me, again the address is rebeccac@ifcmw.org.
6/3/2011 11:46 am (et) Moderator: logs in on 6/3/2011 11:46 am (et).
6/3/2011 11:46 am (et) Arif: private message to Moderator: logs in on 6/3/2011 11:46 am (et).
6/3/2011 11:47 am (et) christa_levko: private message to Moderator: logs in on 6/3/2011 11:47 am (et).
6/3/2011 11:49 am (et) Mary: private message to Moderator: logs in on 6/3/2011 11:49 am (et).
6/3/2011 11:54 am (et) Johari Abdul Malik: logs in on 6/3/2011 11:54 am (et).
6/3/2011 11:55 am (et) Laura S: private message to Moderator: logs in on 6/3/2011 11:55 am (et).
6/3/2011 11:57 am (et) Moderator: Laura S said: Greetings to Johari (we met last fall at your class at NOVA)
6/3/2011 11:57 am (et) Johari Abdul Malik: hi
6/3/2011 11:57 am (et) Johari Abdul Malik: Glad you could make it
6/3/2011 11:58 am (et) Susan: private message to Moderator: logs in on 6/3/2011 11:58 am (et).
6/3/2011 11:59 am (et) Hussong: private message to Moderator: logs in on 6/3/2011 11:59 am (et).
6/3/2011 11:59 am (et) Moderator: Welcome! This is Rebecca from the InterFaith Conference (IFC) and I will be your moderator. As this is still new, let me explain how this will work. On the right, you will see a video playing of our current topic to get the conversation going. If you have a comment and/or question send it along to me, the moderator. As long as I deem it appropriate, the comment will be posted to everyone and the speaker will have the opportunity to answer your question.
6/3/2011 12:00 pm (et) Moderator: Today, our topic is ‘An Islamic View of Religious (Non)Violence,’ with Imam Johari Abdul Malik, Muslim member of IFC’s Board and one of the imams at Dar Al-Hijrah. For more information on his work visit: http://www.imamjohari.com/A_Call_To_Non-Violent_Resistance/Welcome.html.
6/3/2011 12:00 pm (et) ssawmell: private message to Moderator: logs in on 6/3/2011 12:00 pm (et).
6/3/2011 12:00 pm (et) Moderator: As always, I would like to remind you of the rules of our engagement. This is a respectful place where we come together to learn more about the religions of the world. Whether you agree or disagree, we welcome your comments and questions that are posed in a respectful manner. Please no profane or offensive remarks, they will not be posted. Also, this is a place of learning, so please refrain from ‘soapboxing.’ If there are any issues or questions about this, they can be submitted along with the comments pertaining to our topic. I am here to make this a pleasant and educational experience for all, so enjoy and remember there are no stupid questions, just hostile ones!
6/3/2011 12:01 pm (et) Moderator: You can now view the beginning comments on the right. As you listen, please feel free to start sending questions or comments (YES, we want your comments). Also, the video will remain within the sidebar, so feel free to return to it as you wish. Our chat window automatically refreshes to keep the flow going, but if you wish to view the whole of the conversation, just hit the archive button. And lastly, PLEASE do not use double quotes as it led to some issues.
6/3/2011 12:02 pm (et) Denise: private message to Moderator: logs in on 6/3/2011 12:02 pm (et).
6/3/2011 12:06 pm (et) Moderator: Hussong said: May I ask if you are a Sunni or a Shi'a?
6/3/2011 12:07 pm (et) Moderator: ssawmell said: Imam, given Rep. Peter King's Islamophic hearing on radicalization, and his intention to hold another hearing focused on the growth of Islamic militancy in American prisons, are you and other Islamic leaders (such as Imams Hendi and Feisal) reaching out in the spirit of dialogue to King's chief of staff or to the representative himself?
6/3/2011 12:12 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: I do not consider myself to be a shia therefore I guess that makes me sunni
6/3/2011 12:13 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: The king hearings I think gave a great opening to begin a dialogue around radicalization.
6/3/2011 12:13 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: what PERCENTAGE of those books are about the Prophet's battles compared to the amount of writing about other aspects of his life? IOW, how out of proportion is it to be referencing these books vs the others? And why do you think it is the battles that are so much more appealing?
6/3/2011 12:13 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: (I think it is simply human nature to be more excited by stories of battles and violence than of peaceful coexistence (just look at our video games and movies)
6/3/2011 12:13 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: King's staff is not that open to much dialogue but others have come forward to dialogue.
6/3/2011 12:14 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: There is a new interfaith effort called Shoulder to shoulder with nation religious leaders
6/3/2011 12:15 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: Laura: I think the popular narrative of battle comes out of a history of oppressed groups looking at his life like Americans look a westerns-cowboys and indians
6/3/2011 12:16 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: It is an immature human thing.
6/3/2011 12:16 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: What does jihad mean in your narrative?
6/3/2011 12:17 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: Jihad- the root - Ja-ha-da in arabic to struggle to strive. My problem is that this is too often seen as violence.
6/3/2011 12:17 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: The Prophet spent 13 years of his 23 years as a prophet in non-violent resistance in
6/3/2011 12:17 pm (et) Moderator: Hengist said: Battles appeal to a certain level of desperation as well. It is easier to dismiss an opponent's arguments in a context of violence, than in a context of dialogue. And when we feel disadvantaged we have an excuse to kick over the table of negotiation. It is notable that the Prophet Muhammad never rejected dialogue.
6/3/2011 12:18 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: ironically, the name
6/3/2011 12:18 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: Indeed
6/3/2011 12:18 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: What is the struggle in Islam?
6/3/2011 12:19 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: The jihad al-Akbar: the greatest Jihad is against the weakness of self.
6/3/2011 12:19 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: I am not saying that islam is passive in nature. but most fighting is defensive in the history of the prophet M.
6/3/2011 12:20 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: The battles that followed him unfortunately were not the best example of that tradition.
6/3/2011 12:20 pm (et) Moderator: christa_levko said: It seems popular culture promotes violence as a way to overcome self weakness - do you think that's where a lot of the violence in Islam comes from? If not why do you think it is prevalent?
6/3/2011 12:21 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: Kind of that macho image, Christa?
6/3/2011 12:22 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: The popular narrative is a medieval narrative
6/3/2011 12:22 pm (et) Moderator: Hussong said: I'm interested in the historical context of the revelation in the Qur'an that pertains to various battles, Badr, Uhud, etc. I encounter a lot of people who think the Qur'an is violent in nature but do not understand the timeline of revelation and the period of events that happened when Allah's message was revealed.
6/3/2011 12:22 pm (et) Moderator: christa_levko said: Yeah, I'm not sure if the media image of masculinity is as popular elsewhere as it is in America but it seems to be a major factor in volence here
6/3/2011 12:23 pm (et) Moderator: Hussong said: I think this contributes a lot to that false 'understanding of jihad' who think it is all about waging wars, not a defense
6/3/2011 12:23 pm (et) Moderator: Hengist said: It could be argued that those who turn aside from the greater Jihad to devote themselves to warfare against those who reject Islam have fallen away from Islam in favor of a worship of violence, which alas, is hardly unique to Islam as a social phenomena.
6/3/2011 12:23 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: Karen Armstong, in her book 'The Battle for God' (about fundamentalism in the three monotheistic traditions) observes that the modern Islamic militancy is a response to colonialism. Would you agree with this Johari?
6/3/2011 12:23 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: The Quran prohibited fighting for the early days of the revelation and then in
6/3/2011 12:24 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: Fight to convert or to establish Islam on people is prohibited by the Quran. But often Muslims forget this
6/3/2011 12:24 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: I think the violence is a errant response to colonialism.
6/3/2011 12:25 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: That forgetfulness doesn't seem to be a limited focus...the Catholic Church has never officially condoned forced baptism but look at Portugal in 1492
6/3/2011 12:25 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: Qurans says that Allah gives soveriegnity to whomever He chooses.
6/3/2011 12:25 pm (et) Moderator: Hengist said: Christ did not have a home, and was a wanderer, while Muhammad had accepted responsibility for the safety and well- being of a community. How can tese two be compared? It is in their similarities, rather than their differences that discoveries need to be made.
6/3/2011 12:26 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: The media has negative effect too often on many of us. But our textual understanding
6/3/2011 12:26 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: I think the narratives of all of the prophets and guides have great similarities.
6/3/2011 12:27 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: In a far future world, what do you think would end the Islamic violence? If they could have what they want from this violence, what would that be?
6/3/2011 12:27 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: IOW, what would it take to from US to end their violence?
6/3/2011 12:27 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: Jesus was fatherless and Muhammad was fatherless. They where all shepards
6/3/2011 12:28 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: I think it is important to note that they saw something wrong with the world and set out to better it...I do firmly believe that of the great prophets and guides as you have called them
6/3/2011 12:28 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: Violence will never deliver what people really want. Violence begets violence. The prophet when he opens
6/3/2011 12:28 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: Do they even know what they are fighting for?
6/3/2011 12:29 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: One of failures of Al-Qaeda is that they do not have an end game.
6/3/2011 12:29 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: Do they want the whole world to be converted to Islam or do they just want us to stop trying to force their cultures to adopt our form of democracy?
6/3/2011 12:29 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: I think its been masked...I would not disagree that much of the violence is politically based, a remnant of colonialism, but it is clouded with religion.
6/3/2011 12:30 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: Violence is the fruit of anger not the seed of community
6/3/2011 12:30 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: Religion speaks to people in a unique way, so people can use and abuse it.
6/3/2011 12:31 pm (et) Moderator: Hengist said: One problem is that so few people on any
side have a clear picture of what an end to
conflict would look like. Certainly not in
everybody agreeing to accept one
religious label or another, which could not
happen in a context of violence, anyway.
6/3/2011 12:31 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: I take issue even with the concept of 'Just War' in islam
6/3/2011 12:31 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: War is by definition - A harm
6/3/2011 12:32 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: The prophet M tells his companions after surviving a battle says you have just left the lesser jihad and are going to the greater jihad.
6/3/2011 12:33 pm (et) ameriAKR: private message to Moderator: logs in on 6/3/2011 12:33 pm (et).
6/3/2011 12:33 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: The non-violent narrative of the Prophet M is now being brought forward.
6/3/2011 12:33 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: the concept of 'just war' is also present in Christianity and in Sikhism. Other religions preach pacifism no matter what. Is there never a righteous reason to stand up for what is right? (not that many wars actually do this but at least in theory)?
6/3/2011 12:33 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: Check out Abdul-Ghaffar Khan - he is considered the Muslm Ghandi.
6/3/2011 12:34 pm (et) solfrid: private message to Moderator: logs in on 6/3/2011 12:34 pm (et).
6/3/2011 12:34 pm (et) Moderator: Hengist said: My understanding of the Prophet's life suggested that the Prophet believed that the best war was not as good as a bad peace. Of course, Muhammad believed that God was on Muhammad's side. War merely interferes with the normal exchange of ideas.
6/3/2011 12:34 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: Just War theory has always been used to go to war rather than to stop a war
6/3/2011 12:34 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: Would you compare the literal approach to Jihad to the more fundamentalist strains of Christianity say? They both seem to have the same kind of mentality in which we look for the most obvious meaning to text
6/3/2011 12:34 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: I guess we can contrast MLKjr's non-violent resistence with that of the Nation of Islam in America (under Malcom X before his conversion)
6/3/2011 12:35 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: The movement of Islam only gained ground during periods of peace. This is way he made many concessions in the peace treaty of Hudiabiyyah
6/3/2011 12:36 pm (et) Moderator: Hengist said: It is unfortunate that 'Just' war has been a label demanded by society so that war makers have included a just war formulation. The Kaiser regarded the Belgian resistance to German invasion as criminal.
6/3/2011 12:36 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: Johari, great point about just war theory always being used to go to war
6/3/2011 12:36 pm (et) Moderator: Hussong said: Today Islam is rapidly expanding and unfortunately there is much violence though.
6/3/2011 12:36 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: The comparison of MLK and MX i'm not sure. Malcolm X talked tough but never engaged in any act of violence. The NOI was banned from carry weapons.
6/3/2011 12:37 pm (et) Moderator: christa_levko said: It seems in any violent activity there is someone who does not see it as 'just'
6/3/2011 12:37 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: The lessons from Tahrir sq in
6/3/2011 12:38 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: all bark and no bite? I did not know that. However that sort of rhetoric will naturally rile up some folks to fight, even if the rules forbid such action (perhaps that's what we are seeing in today's militant Islam?)
6/3/2011 12:38 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: Al-Qaeda and Taliban tactics are rejected by most Muslims while they agree with the critique of their own government.
6/3/2011 12:39 pm (et) Moderator: ameriAKR said: i think there are a lot of reasons for the "much violence" that still require solutions..however basic
6/3/2011 12:40 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: The PM=Muhammad said Jihad is to speak truth to power
6/3/2011 12:40 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: When people sit on their hands until problems are extreme then they justify violence.
6/3/2011 12:41 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: Even I felt that WE should attack Qaddafy - but we waited for decades - we missed the opportunity
6/3/2011 12:41 pm (et) Moderator: ameriAKR said: but are there not different forms of jihad....was your reference to all forms or simply more aggressive forms?
6/3/2011 12:41 pm (et) Moderator: Hengist said: Perhaps real peace will come as women are more empowered, not just in the Islamic countries, but all over the world. Certainly the more dedicated purveyors of violence have not wanted women's voices heard.
6/3/2011 12:42 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: Patience doesn't mean sitting on your hands.
6/3/2011 12:42 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: The spirit of resistance to wrong must be birthed in th hearts of everyone.
6/3/2011 12:42 pm (et) Moderator: Hengist said: 'We must wage peace'
6/3/2011 12:43 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: Then the fear of the loss of our life or property will allow us in faith to resist.
6/3/2011 12:43 pm (et) Moderator: christa_levko said: to have the truth heard, all need to be hear... so I would agree with Hengist
6/3/2011 12:43 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: I would be interested in your reaction to the recent uprisings in the
6/3/2011 12:43 pm (et) MSH786: private message to Moderator: logs in on 6/3/2011 12:43 pm (et).
6/3/2011 12:43 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: Unfortunately, we must teach the techiques of waging peace.
6/3/2011 12:43 pm (et) Moderator: Hussong said: How do you think the violence against Sufis in Northern Africa,
6/3/2011 12:44 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: The Arab spring is giving rise to the power of NV resistance.
6/3/2011 12:44 pm (et) Moderator: Hussong said: And also the destruction of dargahs as well?
6/3/2011 12:44 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: The sectarian violence is always a divide and conquer strategy
6/3/2011 12:45 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: The PM did not attack the Christians in
6/3/2011 12:46 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: I believe that PM would not distroy the holy places of others.
6/3/2011 12:46 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: Literacy is a critical step. Most of the Muslims in the world are illiterate
6/3/2011 12:46 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: Divide and conquer is a strategy that we too have used - first we 'demonize' the enemy (the 'axis of evil') thus making us feel we are being righteous to go to war and fight and kill the enemy
6/3/2011 12:47 pm (et) Moderator: ameriAKR said: does that go to anything bid'a in nature or form?
6/3/2011 12:47 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: The real axis of evil: poverty, disease and ignoranc
6/3/2011 12:47 pm (et) Moderator: Hengist said: For me, 'waging' peace means honoring Muhammad in non-Muslim contexts, upholding Islamic values as worth emulating, whatever one's faith background, and acknowledging that Islam. like the older Abrahamic beliefs, is not monolithic.
6/3/2011 12:47 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: then we only end up making our enemy feel on the defensive and thus waging a 'just war' or jihad
6/3/2011 12:48 pm (et) Moderator: Sorry everyone, I posted a bit out of order, please read Laura S's comments as one.
6/3/2011 12:48 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: In America we must model to the world how we live together and that our faiths make our understanding of our individual faiths deeper
6/3/2011 12:48 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: in response to OUR aggression
6/3/2011 12:48 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: I was in Afghanistan recently
6/3/2011 12:49 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: Many think that US is like USSR. Anti-god.
6/3/2011 12:49 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: When I told that Islam in a free society is growing they were shocked.
6/3/2011 12:50 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: Even from the theatre of war there is a great witness.
6/3/2011 12:50 pm (et) Moderator: christa_levko said: that's not suprising - the news stories that come from America are all intolerance and hate
6/3/2011 12:50 pm (et) Moderator: Hengist said: The extremists on either side want Muslims in America to be alienated, rather than accepted as a new, valued, enhancement of American life.
6/3/2011 12:51 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: American soldiers are coming home more educated
6/3/2011 12:51 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: We have to fight the battle of diseducation about Islam in
6/3/2011 12:51 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: Not the CNN/Fox version of
6/3/2011 12:52 pm (et) Moderator: Hussong said: So what can we do as young adults in college to spread awareness about Islam and peace?
6/3/2011 12:52 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: We must speak to the world about how we live and worship in
6/3/2011 12:52 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: Many of them will be shocked.
6/3/2011 12:53 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: IFC is a great platform but we can't keep this dialogue a secret
6/3/2011 12:53 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: we may need to change our public face - what the world sees of us is materialism, capitalism, sexual immorality...
6/3/2011 12:53 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: greedy individualism
6/3/2011 12:54 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: College is a great place for the Universe of City. Hold dialogues, programs and get to know people from difference backgrounds. This will give you the background to confront ignorance,
6/3/2011 12:54 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: and a superiority attitude that says we think we are 'number 1' in the world
6/3/2011 12:54 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: We care tweet our reality.
6/3/2011 12:55 pm (et) Moderator: Hengist said: This is not just a problem in the Islamic world. Anybody studying our media, advertising, etc. would get a warped idea of American values, including Americans.
6/3/2011 12:55 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: Also people in
6/3/2011 12:55 pm (et) Moderator: christa_levko said: every country thinks they are the best - that's not a new concept... but how would we go about changing our image to other countries?
6/3/2011 12:56 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: Pew did a studied and published that most Muslims in the world are not anti-america.they are anti-oppression
6/3/2011 12:56 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: do they then see
6/3/2011 12:57 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: Old ideas have merit. But social networking got Obama elected, help the Tahrir movement and can help us spread peace and understanding
6/3/2011 12:57 pm (et) Moderator: Hi All, it is that time of the week, where we must wrap up, so please finish any lingering thoughts.
6/3/2011 12:57 pm (et) Moderator: Hengist said: We need to tell the story that the Best of America comes from being receptive to the Best of other countries and cultures.
6/3/2011 12:57 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: The Americans that people meet in their home countries generally make a good impression on the locals...
6/3/2011 12:58 pm (et) Moderator: Hussong said: This is very true. I was in
6/3/2011 12:58 pm (et) Moderator: Hussong said: They saw the culture as liberal and embracing, but did not feel as though the American government backed that
6/3/2011 12:58 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: always, when we get to know the 'other' as a real person, we get a better impression
6/3/2011 12:58 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: And we need to explain to the world that the American experiment has made mistakes but we got at lot right eventually.
6/3/2011 12:58 pm (et) Moderator: Hengist said: 'You don't trust our government? Well
neither do we!'
6/3/2011 12:59 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: The term Muslim world has to go too. There is only one world and we all live in it
6/3/2011 12:59 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: The Quran says we were created to know each other....
6/3/2011 1:00 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: Wow, it has been an hour already. This was wonderful
6/3/2011 1:00 pm (et) Moderator: Hengist said: When we truly know each other, we are closer to knowing God.
6/3/2011 1:00 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: it is our true nature. ....Good
6/3/2011 1:01 pm (et) Johari Abdul Malik: The meaning of Islam is to be at peace with that true self...
6/3/2011 1:02 pm (et) Moderator: Thank you for your participation today. If you would like to reach our speaker please contact me at rebeccac@ifcmw.org. Next week we will be taking a break due to some extenuating circumstances, but we will return the following week, June 17, to hear Rev. Clark Lobenstine, Executive Director of IFC, on “How to Dialogue.”
6/3/2011 1:02 pm (et) Moderator: Also, this is a new effort on our part so we welcome your feedback! Any comments will be helpful. If you have any suggestion please feel free to email me at rebeccac@ifcmw.org.
6/3/2011 1:02 pm (et) Moderator: If you are interested in finding out more about our organization please feel free to browse our website: www.ifcmw.org and sign up for our bi-monthly e-newsletter by emailing me, again the address is rebeccac@ifcmw.org.
