The corresponding video can be viewed at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9I_0VVE5ti0
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12/8/2011 1:00 pm (et) Moderator: Welcome! This is Rebecca from the InterFaith Conference (IFC) and I will be your moderator. Let me explain how this will work. On the right, you will see a video playing of our current topic to get the conversation going. If you have a comment and/or question send it along to me, the moderator. As long as I deem it appropriate, the comment will be posted to everyone and the speaker will have the opportunity to answer your question.
12/8/2011 1:00 pm (et) Moderator: Today, our topic is ‘Religion in the Occupy Movement’ with Rev. Brian Merritt, Founding Member and Vice Chair of IFC's Center for Advancing Justice and Regional Trustee on the National Board of the International Council of Community Churches.
12/8/2011 1:00 pm (et) Moderator: As always, I would like to remind you of the rules of our engagement. This is a respectful place where we come together to learn more about the religions of the world. Whether you agree or disagree, we welcome your comments and questions that are posed in a respectful manner. Please no profane or offensive remarks, they will not be posted. Also, this is a place of learning, so please refrain from ‘soapboxing.’ If there are any issues or questions about this, they can be submitted along with the comments pertaining to our topic. I am here to make this a pleasant and educational experience for all, so enjoy and remember there are no stupid questions, just hostile ones!
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12/8/2011 1:00 pm (et) Moderator: You can now view the beginning comments on the right. As you listen, please feel free to start sending questions or comments (YES, we want your comments). Also, the video will remain within the sidebar, so feel free to return to it as you wish. Our chat window automatically refreshes to keep the flow going, but if you wish to view the whole of the conversation, just hit the archive button. And lastly, PLEASE do not use double quotes as it leads to some issues.
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12/8/2011 1:00 pm (et) Moderator: Welcome! This is Rebecca from the InterFaith Conference (IFC) and I will be your moderator. Let me explain how this will work. On the right, you will see a video playing of our current topic to get the conversation going. If you have a comment and/or question send it along to me, the moderator. As long as I deem it appropriate, the comment will be posted to everyone and the speaker will have the opportunity to answer your question.
12/8/2011 1:00 pm (et) Moderator: Today, our topic is ‘Religion in the Occupy Movement’ with Rev. Brian Merritt, Founding Member and Vice Chair of IFC's Center for Advancing Justice and Regional Trustee on the National Board of the International Council of Community Churches.
12/8/2011 1:00 pm (et) Moderator: As always, I would like to remind you of the rules of our engagement. This is a respectful place where we come together to learn more about the religions of the world. Whether you agree or disagree, we welcome your comments and questions that are posed in a respectful manner. Please no profane or offensive remarks, they will not be posted. Also, this is a place of learning, so please refrain from ‘soapboxing.’ If there are any issues or questions about this, they can be submitted along with the comments pertaining to our topic. I am here to make this a pleasant and educational experience for all, so enjoy and remember there are no stupid questions, just hostile ones!
12/8/2011 1:00 pm (et) ShaneInDallas: private message to Moderator: logs in on 12/8/2011 1:00 pm (et).
12/8/2011 1:00 pm (et) Moderator: You can now view the beginning comments on the right. As you listen, please feel free to start sending questions or comments (YES, we want your comments). Also, the video will remain within the sidebar, so feel free to return to it as you wish. Our chat window automatically refreshes to keep the flow going, but if you wish to view the whole of the conversation, just hit the archive button. And lastly, PLEASE do not use double quotes as it leads to some issues.
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12/8/2011 1:05 pm (et) Moderator: rafael said: How would you describe the role of clergy in Occupy?
12/8/2011 1:05 pm (et) CSalafia: private message to Moderator: logs in on 12/8/2011 1:05 pm (et).
12/8/2011 1:07 pm (et) Brain Merritt: Rafael. We have had many rolls. First she have held many different faith's services in the park. We do street counseling. Also, we have coordinated teach ins with the #occupyjudaism group. One thing that has been essential has been our role in keeping tense Actions non-violent.
12/8/2011 1:07 pm (et) Brain Merritt: One other is that we have erected an #occupychurch in the park as well.
12/8/2011 1:08 pm (et) JimFussell: private message to Moderator: logs in on 12/8/2011 1:08 pm (et).
12/8/2011 1:08 pm (et) Brain Merritt: Outside support has been growing as well with groups like #occupyfaithindc. They held a Thanksgiving dinner for 300 occupiers. NY Avenue Presbyterian has even allowed the GA to meet in their building.
12/8/2011 1:09 pm (et) Brain Merritt: Nationally the Protest Chaplains are preparing to gather in NYC to plot our national 6 month strategy. So, more to come ;-)
12/8/2011 1:11 pm (et) Brain Merritt: Today in front of the capital the Take Back the Capital group held a large prayer interfaith Prayer vigil to advocate for the unemployed. There was a large showing.
12/8/2011 1:11 pm (et) MonicaLundberg: private message to Moderator: logs in on 12/8/2011 1:11 pm (et).
12/8/2011 1:11 pm (et) Moderator: stacyra said: What is the presence of non-clergy people of faith?
12/8/2011 1:11 pm (et) Moderator: CSalafia said: How did you approach and get various clergy to participate in #occupy?
12/8/2011 1:11 pm (et) Clark Lobenstine: Thanks for sharing, Brian! and especially thank for being an active presence in the Occupy movement.
12/8/2011 1:12 pm (et) Moderator: rafael said: When is the NYC national gathering scheduled for?
12/8/2011 1:12 pm (et) Moderator: stacyra said: Is there a difference between Occupy Faith and Occupy Chaplains?
12/8/2011 1:12 pm (et) Moderator: LBP26 said: Do you hear of any religious groups working with the Occupy movements in the South?
12/8/2011 1:12 pm (et) Brain Merritt: Actually clergy has been woefully low. It has been mainly through the energy of the laity that we have moved forward.
12/8/2011 1:13 pm (et) Brain Merritt: CSalfia~ When you figure it out tell me. I would love to say that there is groundswell of clergy. We will just have to redouble efforts.
12/8/2011 1:13 pm (et) Moderator: stacyra said: here inSeattle
12/8/2011 1:14 pm (et) Brain Merritt: Rafael~ The Protest Chaplains are meeting on the 18th and 19th in NYC. Still tentative.
12/8/2011 1:14 pm (et) Brain Merritt: Stacyra~ The chaplains have been sort of the on the ground support, Occupy faith is a broader religious support network.
12/8/2011 1:15 pm (et) Moderator: rafael said: It would be great if the NYC Protest Chaplains meeting can be on
12/8/2011 1:15 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: I do not really understand just what this 'Occupy' movement is really all about. Can you explain for those of us who are not familar with why this is going on? I gather it is a protest movement but exactly what are they protesting and what changes do they want? How do they expect a 'sit in' to accomplish this? These problems have been going on for years. Why now? Is it like 'we are fed up and can't take it anymore'? Can you give us some basic background on the Occupy movement in general...
12/8/2011 1:15 pm (et) Moderator: LBP26 said: We find for most ministry outside the doors of the congregation, the pastors are there with the homeless, the hungry, those needing clothing, but the laity are at work or too elderly.
12/8/2011 1:15 pm (et) Brain Merritt: Stacyra~ I should say that my experience with clergy is in DC. I know other areas have had larger support.
12/8/2011 1:15 pm (et) spatz: private message to Moderator: logs in on 12/8/2011 1:15 pm (et).
12/8/2011 1:16 pm (et) Moderator: jim rigby said: In Austin one of the original rules of our occupy movement was "no religion". Made it hard to find a place contribute.
12/8/2011 1:17 pm (et) Kimberly: private message to Moderator: logs in on 12/8/2011 1:17 pm (et).
12/8/2011 1:17 pm (et) Moderator: Jim Rigby said: I went and marched but that was about it.
12/8/2011 1:18 pm (et) Brain Merritt: Laura S~ Excellent Question. This is a movement about the undue influence in our political/economic sphere by a small wealth class. Why now? There are different demographic groups underrepresented in our country that are suffering historic poverty and unemployment rates. No movement that has historically achieved change in theUS
12/8/2011 1:19 pm (et) Brain Merritt: LBP26~ Itihas been my experience that I am meeting God more and more in the park and less and less in limestone structures.
12/8/2011 1:20 pm (et) Moderator: JimFussell said: Thank you Brian - Good Introduction.
12/8/2011 1:20 pm (et) Brain Merritt: Jim~ That is completely unfortunate and I think and aberration. I would continue to push back at GA's. That is unacceptable in a direct democratic movement.
12/8/2011 1:20 pm (et) Moderator: LBP26 said: I still need the worship to renew me for the mission.
12/8/2011 1:20 pm (et) Brain Merritt: Jim~ I will bring this up here. Some of theAustin
12/8/2011 1:21 pm (et) Brain Merritt: LBP26~ me too. I also need the worship we have had in the park. That has been awesome.
12/8/2011 1:21 pm (et) Moderator: Jim Rigby said: I worked behind the scenes, but the religious influence was muted.
12/8/2011 1:21 pm (et) Moderator: rafael said: Wonder if w eshouldn't put together an internal directory of protest chaplains so we can learn from each other.
12/8/2011 1:21 pm (et) Moderator: ShaneInDallas said: Brian and others: Is there wide-ranging diversity among protestors in D.C. and elsewhere?
12/8/2011 1:22 pm (et) Brain Merritt: Jim~ Knowing you I find it hard to believe you could be muted ;-)
12/8/2011 1:22 pm (et) Moderator: Jim Rigby said: They've done a great job, I just couldn't weigh in as a clergy.
12/8/2011 1:22 pm (et) Brain Merritt: Rafael~ That would be hugely needed. We are doing it by relationships right now.
12/8/2011 1:23 pm (et) Moderator: Jim Rigby said: So many groups were trying to usurp them I think they were wise.
12/8/2011 1:23 pm (et) Brain Merritt: ShaneInDallas~ I can only speak for DC. It has been incredibly diverse. Which sometimes has posed its own challenges.
12/8/2011 1:23 pm (et) Moderator: spatz said: I am wondering what Brian and others think the role of people of faith, and/or clergy, can be in maybe providing some perspective for young protestors who seem pretty seriously flailing in an attempt to get attention and maybe their street cred others got from pepper spraying, etc. in other cities. That barn action on Sunday and now a hunger strike for DC voting rights! Really, some perspective and help seems in order and maybe that could come from people of faith. I know I am losing any interest in supporting myself.
12/8/2011 1:23 pm (et) Moderator: rafael said: I can put so in touch with the Occupy Toronto Protest Chaplains
12/8/2011 1:23 pm (et) Brain Merritt: Jim~ We have found co-option to be a big problem. The prayer vigil today only had "national" voices. No local occupiers.
12/8/2011 1:24 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: Susan Phillips here. Brian, I've told stories about your anointing service where people were marked with = signs
12/8/2011 1:24 pm (et) Moderator: JimFussell said: Jim Fussell: Something I've noticed is parallel discussion at occupy sites face-to-face and on the internet online, often complementing and enriching each other. Yet the online conversations often are national or even global.
12/8/2011 1:25 pm (et) Moderator: JimFussell said: For example, In my own faith community we have a facebook group called 'Occupy, Quakers!'
12/8/2011 1:25 pm (et) Moderator: rafael said: Agree with Brian on possibility of Occupy being co-opted by special interest groups with their own agenda (e.g. labor unions)
12/8/2011 1:25 pm (et) Brain Merritt: spatz~ Good to see you. You have been such a great presence. I can talk to that in the park, but I would be interested in others views on this.
12/8/2011 1:26 pm (et) Brain Merritt: Susan~ thanks. It has been a great percolator for liturgical innovation.
12/8/2011 1:26 pm (et) Moderator: rafael said: Jim. Is Occupy Quakers an open group at Facebook
12/8/2011 1:26 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: Sounds like a prophetic statement - those who warn and raise issues against the status quo
12/8/2011 1:26 pm (et) Brain Merritt: Rafael~I would love to forward that info to the NYC gathering.
12/8/2011 1:27 pm (et) Moderator: LBP26 said: Does your congregation fully support you or do they tell you that you are failing to do things back at the office?
12/8/2011 1:27 pm (et) Brain Merritt: Rafael~ I am afraid also that it will be co-opted by our Social Justice professional class that will try to push it toward their existing programs instead of listening.
12/8/2011 1:28 pm (et) Moderator: JimFussell said: Other such religious groups dialoguing about the Occupy movement are 'http://www.facebook.com/occupyjudaism' , occupy ucc, & 'Methodists @ OWS' all on facebook.
12/8/2011 1:28 pm (et) Moderator: ShaneInDallas said: SIDEBAR (if someone can respond here or Shane@eboc.org) Anyone with an opinion on Starbuck's www.createjobsforusa.org ?
12/8/2011 1:28 pm (et) Brain Merritt: LBP26~ You aren't from my church are you?:-) It has been a juggling act. My church is ecumenical and I feel this falls well within my calling. I think as long as I get my work done they have been good.
12/8/2011 1:29 pm (et) Moderator: LBP26 said: What should the social justice professional class hear from the Occupiers?
12/8/2011 1:29 pm (et) Moderator: LBP26 said: No, I am from your school and your old presbytery down here.
12/8/2011 1:29 pm (et) Moderator: rafael said: Our Facebook page is Occupy Toornto Protest Chaplains. feel free to come and join our conversation.
12/8/2011 1:30 pm (et) Brain Merritt: LBP26~Well, I have worked amongst them for a long time. I just don't want them parachuting in without helping those in a movement who are hauling water.
12/8/2011 1:30 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: I'm a long way from the centers of occupation, althoughWisconsin
12/8/2011 1:31 pm (et) Brain Merritt: LBP26~many in my church are in strong support. Others couldn't care less. None are against.
12/8/2011 1:31 pm (et) Moderator: LBP26 said: I meant really hear. You said they should listen, so what would you advise them to actually hear?
12/8/2011 1:32 pm (et) Brain Merritt: I think if they are truly organizations that care from below they will not paternalize the response to the needs of the poorest of the poor.
12/8/2011 1:34 pm (et) Brain Merritt: LBP26~They have been working faithfully for years, but with little traction or success politically. It is time to listen to what a broader democratic movement says are the needs and solutions. This is what occupy is all about. Reclaiming public space for redress. There are plenty of Think tanks, social justice ministries and NGOs doing good work. I would say don't discount the people's ability to successfully petition for their own good.
12/8/2011 1:35 pm (et) Moderator: logs off on 12/8/2011 1:35 pm (et).
12/8/2011 1:35 pm (et) Clark Lobenstine: Brian, don't know if you saw my earlier comment before I had to sign off and back on again to get into the conversation. But I said, "Thanks for sharing and for being present in the Occupy DC movement, especially atMcPherson Square .
12/8/2011 1:35 pm (et) Susan C: private message to Moderator: logs in on 12/8/2011 1:35 pm (et).
12/8/2011 1:35 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: The First Amendment rights in full practice!
12/8/2011 1:36 pm (et) Brain Merritt: ThanksClark . I have appreciated the IFC's willingness to communicate #occupy to the larger religious community. It has been a real gift and witness to the IFC's importance.
12/8/2011 1:36 pm (et) Moderator: rafael said: I am Presbyterian. The people in my church who would be against, would be those who still think that church and politics dont mix. Within that view my role as pastor is in the church not with protesters. What I have found helpful is to frame my work in the movement as pastoral care. I continue to ask the question As communities of faith and resistance, what is our duty of care towards protesters.
12/8/2011 1:37 pm (et) Brain Merritt: Laura~ Yes it is about that and the freedom of assembly that has been winnowed down over the years to Protest zones and less and less public space.
12/8/2011 1:38 pm (et) Moderator: ShaneInDallas said: Tip: A good empowerment song is Tom Morello's 'Black Spartacus...' album is 'World Wide Rebel Songs' by 'The Night Watchman'
12/8/2011 1:38 pm (et) Brain Merritt: Rafael~ that is so fascinating. I think that is a wonderful way to frame it. It is funny that in the first few weeks most of the people in the camp didn't see this as a political movement either. They saw it as a social movement of regathering into tangible community. Also, witness to the world of the society that we would like to see.
12/8/2011 1:39 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: rafael, good question! the idea that church and politics should not mix can go both ways or one way - that politics should not influence church but church/religion should influence society/politics. Others (as you suggest) see a more absolute and two-way separation.
12/8/2011 1:39 pm (et) Brain Merritt: ShaneInDallas~ Now you are talking my language. Wore my Rage Against the Machine T-Shirt to a meeting at the National Council of Churches
12/8/2011 1:41 pm (et) Moderator: LBP26 said: I hear a lot of don't mix religion and politics, but the same people who say that are often the ones who push the flag and being American into every part of church.
12/8/2011 1:41 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: this is the 'litte guy', the (literal) 'man in the street' pressing back against 'big brother'
12/8/2011 1:41 pm (et) Moderator: Susan C said: It sounds very political theology-esque, does it hav to face many of the same critiques should the churches get involved?
12/8/2011 1:41 pm (et) Clark Lobenstine: Rafael, I believe the focus on our pastoral care with the protesters will engage many more people both in and out of the church. Brian's ministry is standing with the protestors. I admire both.
12/8/2011 1:42 pm (et) Brain Merritt: LBP26~The funny thing is that I have seen a huge amount of American flags. At the Action the other night they mic checked the constitution.
12/8/2011 1:42 pm (et) Brain Merritt: Laura S~ The other night the crowd started chanting impromptu "David beat Goliath!"
12/8/2011 1:43 pm (et) Moderator: rafael said: When churches say they do not want to be political, that is actually a political stance. But we need to be able to explain that to the people in the pews.
12/8/2011 1:43 pm (et) Brain Merritt: Susan C~ Anytime the church stands on the side of the poor against the powerful it will get crucified.
12/8/2011 1:44 pm (et) Moderator: LBP26 said: Rafael, I agree. That is why I preach against apathy and being lukewarm.
12/8/2011 1:44 pm (et) Moderator: rafael said: True that.
12/8/2011 1:45 pm (et) Brain Merritt: Rafael~It is essential to have both. Grace is always rippling outward. I think some of the great evolvement I have seen has been a church 2 blocks away lending their space.
12/8/2011 1:46 pm (et) Moderator: Susan C said: I also wonder if this translates to traditions outside mainstream, we seem to have brought up a lot of Christianity and even Judaism, but is there a place for other traditions? Have they been out there too?
12/8/2011 1:46 pm (et) Brain Merritt: The church that landed its space was reticent at first and now they are fired up.
12/8/2011 1:46 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: there is that old religious question of whether people of faith are to CHANGE society or to focus BEYOND this world that is hopelessly lost
12/8/2011 1:47 pm (et) Moderator: rafael said: I wonder if next time we meet we can talk about Protest As A Spiritual Practice.
12/8/2011 1:47 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: either way, the religous view seems to say that is something wrong in this world - change it or stay out of it
12/8/2011 1:47 pm (et) Brain Merritt: We have had Muslim and Seikh participation. I have asked the Buddhists. They are interested, but it becomes more difficult to organize outside of one's own tradition.
12/8/2011 1:48 pm (et) Brain Merritt: Laura S~ I think there is also the broader question. Maybe the spiritual essence is now in the park challenging our institutions to reform and transform. Maybe God wants us to listen to a prophetic voice outside our walls.
12/8/2011 1:49 pm (et) Brain Merritt: Rafael~ Excellent topic. That goes to the heart of my experience with occupy. It is a spiritual practice of being with and not doing for.
12/8/2011 1:49 pm (et) Moderator: Susan C said: I guess that answers my question as well, if they are helping I assume they find something in their tradition that prompts them to
12/8/2011 1:49 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: what percent of the 'occupy' people are NOT religious? This seems an interesting movement - religious and non-religious alike being involved side-by-side
12/8/2011 1:49 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: ...protesting the same thing. You don't see that very often!
12/8/2011 1:50 pm (et) Moderator: rafael said: John the Baptizer was an prophetic voice in the wilderness, away from the centers of power and privelege inJerusalem
12/8/2011 1:50 pm (et) Clark Lobenstine: Brian, your comment that you are finding God more in the park than in the limestone walls reminds me of people saying there is more "church" downstairs (in fellowship halls) in AA meetings than in the folks that gather upstairs in the sanctuary.
12/8/2011 1:50 pm (et) Brain Merritt: Laura S~ A lot of so called non-religious. Yet, we had an affinity meeting the other night where the atheist asked the three Christians to offer a prayer for the group.
12/8/2011 1:51 pm (et) Brain Merritt:Clark ~ I am a good Calvinist. ;-) God is free to institute worship wherever God deems fit. .
12/8/2011 1:52 pm (et) Moderator: Susan C said: rafael - And Jesus brought that protest right back, confronting the centers of power!
12/8/2011 1:52 pm (et) Moderator: rafael said: The Spirit goes where she wills. I believe that Spirit is active outside the boundaries of church. .
12/8/2011 1:53 pm (et) Brain Merritt: Rafael~ It is interesting to see whom God used in Hebrew Texts as well. Ezekiel, Jeremiah, Moses, David, Solomon, Hosea, Jonah. Reading their stories I am not convinced that the most clean cut people are the ones that God uses.
12/8/2011 1:54 pm (et) Brain Merritt: Rafael~ I think that is an essential understanding in being spiritual in a post-modern world.
12/8/2011 1:54 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: Rafael, I like the idea of Protest as Spiritual Practice. That said, I know I hear concern about the words 'Protest' and 'Occupy' getting in the way due to negative connotations (Occupation as power over...). Here in Wisc, I referred to those at the capitol as 'demonstrators'. From a faith perspective, maybe we are 'witnessing.'
12/8/2011 1:54 pm (et) Moderator: rafael said: The ochlos, the people that followed Jesus around in Mark's gospel were more scruffy than clean.
12/8/2011 1:55 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: how many people in THIS dialogue are actively involved or supporting the 'Occupy' movment? I ask because I do notice a LOT more people here this week beyond the handful of regulars we usually have in these chats
12/8/2011 1:55 pm (et) Brain Merritt: Rafael~ I'm afraid that Tony Perkins would disagree with us. There are certain evangelicals that think God is speaking through the business class.
12/8/2011 1:56 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: IOW, this seems to be a topic that got a lot of people excited enough to join today's chat
12/8/2011 1:56 pm (et) Brain Merritt: Laura S~ Obviously I am. ;-)
12/8/2011 1:56 pm (et) Moderator: LBP26 said: God speaks through the ones God chooses to speak through.
12/8/2011 1:56 pm (et) Moderator: rafael said: I am a Protestant Christian. All I need to do is to go back to my owned tradition and see the Reforming Traditions and what they did to change the world then.
12/8/2011 1:57 pm (et) Brain Merritt: LBP26~ Yes, that is exactly what I believe.
12/8/2011 1:57 pm (et) Brain Merritt: Rafael~ I keep telling my Presbyterian brothers and sisters that they would love #occupy. Tons of committees and a General Assembly every day.
12/8/2011 1:58 pm (et) Moderator: Hi everyone, we have just a couple of minutes left, so please finish any concluding thoughts
12/8/2011 1:58 pm (et) Moderator: rafael said: Can Occupy become the 'New Reformation'?
12/8/2011 1:59 pm (et) Moderator: ShaneInDallas said: Not active inDallas
12/8/2011 1:59 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: rafael: except Occupy is seeking to reform our SOCIETY, NOT the church
12/8/2011 1:59 pm (et) Moderator: rafael said: When is our next chat?
12/8/2011 1:59 pm (et) Moderator: IFC holds weekly chats at this time on different topics.
12/8/2011 2:00 pm (et) Moderator: Thank you for your participation today. Next week our topic will be ‘What a Christian can Learn in Dialogue with Others,’ with Rev. Dr. Phil Wogaman, former Chair of IFC’s Board, hope to see you there! If you would like to contact or guest, please contact me at rebeccac@ifcmw.org.
12/8/2011 2:00 pm (et) Moderator: rafael said: The Reformating Movements of the 16th and 17th century ended up reforming Western Civilization itself.
12/8/2011 2:00 pm (et) Moderator: Also, this is a new effort on our part so we welcome your feedback! Any comments will be helpful. If you have any suggestion please feel free to email me at rebeccac@ifcmw.org.
12/8/2011 2:00 pm (et) Brain Merritt: I want to thank everyone who has been here. This is so much in the nature of #occupy. I appreciate the great comments and questions. Rafael I hope it does transform all of us. Semper Reformanda. Many social movements have pushed reform in religious institutions as well.
12/8/2011 2:01 pm (et) Moderator: This moderated chat room is just one example of the many programs which the InterFaith Conference is doing. If you are able and willing to financially support the InterFaith Conference’s vital year-round work, please donate now using the donate button on our website – www.ifcmw.org. You can also find out more about us and sign up for our bi-monthly newsletter.
12/8/2011 2:01 pm (et) Moderator: Again, next week we will have a chat at the same time on 'What a Christian Can Learn in Dialogue with Others.'
12/8/2011 1:05 pm (et) Kimberly Dinsdale: private message to Moderator: logs in on 12/8/2011 1:05 pm (et).
12/8/2011 1:05 pm (et) Moderator: rafael said: How would you describe the role of clergy in Occupy?
12/8/2011 1:05 pm (et) CSalafia: private message to Moderator: logs in on 12/8/2011 1:05 pm (et).
12/8/2011 1:07 pm (et) Brain Merritt: Rafael. We have had many rolls. First she have held many different faith's services in the park. We do street counseling. Also, we have coordinated teach ins with the #occupyjudaism group. One thing that has been essential has been our role in keeping tense Actions non-violent.
12/8/2011 1:07 pm (et) Brain Merritt: One other is that we have erected an #occupychurch in the park as well.
12/8/2011 1:08 pm (et) JimFussell: private message to Moderator: logs in on 12/8/2011 1:08 pm (et).
12/8/2011 1:08 pm (et) Brain Merritt: Outside support has been growing as well with groups like #occupyfaithindc. They held a Thanksgiving dinner for 300 occupiers. NY Avenue Presbyterian has even allowed the GA to meet in their building.
12/8/2011 1:09 pm (et) Brain Merritt: Nationally the Protest Chaplains are preparing to gather in NYC to plot our national 6 month strategy. So, more to come ;-)
12/8/2011 1:11 pm (et) Brain Merritt: Today in front of the capital the Take Back the Capital group held a large prayer interfaith Prayer vigil to advocate for the unemployed. There was a large showing.
12/8/2011 1:11 pm (et) MonicaLundberg: private message to Moderator: logs in on 12/8/2011 1:11 pm (et).
12/8/2011 1:11 pm (et) Moderator: stacyra said: What is the presence of non-clergy people of faith?
12/8/2011 1:11 pm (et) Moderator: CSalafia said: How did you approach and get various clergy to participate in #occupy?
12/8/2011 1:11 pm (et) Clark Lobenstine: Thanks for sharing, Brian! and especially thank for being an active presence in the Occupy movement.
12/8/2011 1:12 pm (et) Moderator: rafael said: When is the NYC national gathering scheduled for?
12/8/2011 1:12 pm (et) Moderator: stacyra said: Is there a difference between Occupy Faith and Occupy Chaplains?
12/8/2011 1:12 pm (et) Moderator: LBP26 said: Do you hear of any religious groups working with the Occupy movements in the South?
12/8/2011 1:12 pm (et) Brain Merritt: Actually clergy has been woefully low. It has been mainly through the energy of the laity that we have moved forward.
12/8/2011 1:13 pm (et) Brain Merritt: CSalfia~ When you figure it out tell me. I would love to say that there is groundswell of clergy. We will just have to redouble efforts.
12/8/2011 1:13 pm (et) Moderator: stacyra said: here in
12/8/2011 1:14 pm (et) Brain Merritt: Rafael~ The Protest Chaplains are meeting on the 18th and 19th in NYC. Still tentative.
12/8/2011 1:14 pm (et) Brain Merritt: Stacyra~ The chaplains have been sort of the on the ground support, Occupy faith is a broader religious support network.
12/8/2011 1:15 pm (et) Moderator: rafael said: It would be great if the NYC Protest Chaplains meeting can be on
12/8/2011 1:15 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: I do not really understand just what this 'Occupy' movement is really all about. Can you explain for those of us who are not familar with why this is going on? I gather it is a protest movement but exactly what are they protesting and what changes do they want? How do they expect a 'sit in' to accomplish this? These problems have been going on for years. Why now? Is it like 'we are fed up and can't take it anymore'? Can you give us some basic background on the Occupy movement in general...
12/8/2011 1:15 pm (et) Moderator: LBP26 said: We find for most ministry outside the doors of the congregation, the pastors are there with the homeless, the hungry, those needing clothing, but the laity are at work or too elderly.
12/8/2011 1:15 pm (et) Brain Merritt: Stacyra~ I should say that my experience with clergy is in DC. I know other areas have had larger support.
12/8/2011 1:15 pm (et) spatz: private message to Moderator: logs in on 12/8/2011 1:15 pm (et).
12/8/2011 1:16 pm (et) Moderator: jim rigby said: In Austin one of the original rules of our occupy movement was "no religion". Made it hard to find a place contribute.
12/8/2011 1:17 pm (et) Kimberly: private message to Moderator: logs in on 12/8/2011 1:17 pm (et).
12/8/2011 1:17 pm (et) Moderator: Jim Rigby said: I went and marched but that was about it.
12/8/2011 1:18 pm (et) Brain Merritt: Laura S~ Excellent Question. This is a movement about the undue influence in our political/economic sphere by a small wealth class. Why now? There are different demographic groups underrepresented in our country that are suffering historic poverty and unemployment rates. No movement that has historically achieved change in the
12/8/2011 1:19 pm (et) Brain Merritt: LBP26~ Itihas been my experience that I am meeting God more and more in the park and less and less in limestone structures.
12/8/2011 1:20 pm (et) Moderator: JimFussell said: Thank you Brian - Good Introduction.
12/8/2011 1:20 pm (et) Brain Merritt: Jim~ That is completely unfortunate and I think and aberration. I would continue to push back at GA's. That is unacceptable in a direct democratic movement.
12/8/2011 1:20 pm (et) Moderator: LBP26 said: I still need the worship to renew me for the mission.
12/8/2011 1:20 pm (et) Brain Merritt: Jim~ I will bring this up here. Some of the
12/8/2011 1:21 pm (et) Brain Merritt: LBP26~ me too. I also need the worship we have had in the park. That has been awesome.
12/8/2011 1:21 pm (et) Moderator: Jim Rigby said: I worked behind the scenes, but the religious influence was muted.
12/8/2011 1:21 pm (et) Moderator: rafael said: Wonder if w eshouldn't put together an internal directory of protest chaplains so we can learn from each other.
12/8/2011 1:21 pm (et) Moderator: ShaneInDallas said: Brian and others: Is there wide-ranging diversity among protestors in D.C. and elsewhere?
12/8/2011 1:22 pm (et) Brain Merritt: Jim~ Knowing you I find it hard to believe you could be muted ;-)
12/8/2011 1:22 pm (et) Moderator: Jim Rigby said: They've done a great job, I just couldn't weigh in as a clergy.
12/8/2011 1:22 pm (et) Brain Merritt: Rafael~ That would be hugely needed. We are doing it by relationships right now.
12/8/2011 1:23 pm (et) Moderator: Jim Rigby said: So many groups were trying to usurp them I think they were wise.
12/8/2011 1:23 pm (et) Brain Merritt: ShaneInDallas~ I can only speak for DC. It has been incredibly diverse. Which sometimes has posed its own challenges.
12/8/2011 1:23 pm (et) Moderator: spatz said: I am wondering what Brian and others think the role of people of faith, and/or clergy, can be in maybe providing some perspective for young protestors who seem pretty seriously flailing in an attempt to get attention and maybe their street cred others got from pepper spraying, etc. in other cities. That barn action on Sunday and now a hunger strike for DC voting rights! Really, some perspective and help seems in order and maybe that could come from people of faith. I know I am losing any interest in supporting myself.
12/8/2011 1:23 pm (et) Moderator: rafael said: I can put so in touch with the Occupy Toronto Protest Chaplains
12/8/2011 1:23 pm (et) Brain Merritt: Jim~ We have found co-option to be a big problem. The prayer vigil today only had "national" voices. No local occupiers.
12/8/2011 1:24 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: Susan Phillips here. Brian, I've told stories about your anointing service where people were marked with = signs
12/8/2011 1:24 pm (et) Moderator: JimFussell said: Jim Fussell: Something I've noticed is parallel discussion at occupy sites face-to-face and on the internet online, often complementing and enriching each other. Yet the online conversations often are national or even global.
12/8/2011 1:25 pm (et) Moderator: JimFussell said: For example, In my own faith community we have a facebook group called 'Occupy, Quakers!'
12/8/2011 1:25 pm (et) Moderator: rafael said: Agree with Brian on possibility of Occupy being co-opted by special interest groups with their own agenda (e.g. labor unions)
12/8/2011 1:25 pm (et) Brain Merritt: spatz~ Good to see you. You have been such a great presence. I can talk to that in the park, but I would be interested in others views on this.
12/8/2011 1:26 pm (et) Brain Merritt: Susan~ thanks. It has been a great percolator for liturgical innovation.
12/8/2011 1:26 pm (et) Moderator: rafael said: Jim. Is Occupy Quakers an open group at Facebook
12/8/2011 1:26 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: Sounds like a prophetic statement - those who warn and raise issues against the status quo
12/8/2011 1:26 pm (et) Brain Merritt: Rafael~I would love to forward that info to the NYC gathering.
12/8/2011 1:27 pm (et) Moderator: LBP26 said: Does your congregation fully support you or do they tell you that you are failing to do things back at the office?
12/8/2011 1:27 pm (et) Brain Merritt: Rafael~ I am afraid also that it will be co-opted by our Social Justice professional class that will try to push it toward their existing programs instead of listening.
12/8/2011 1:28 pm (et) Moderator: JimFussell said: Other such religious groups dialoguing about the Occupy movement are 'http://www.facebook.com/occupyjudaism' , occupy ucc, & 'Methodists @ OWS' all on facebook.
12/8/2011 1:28 pm (et) Moderator: ShaneInDallas said: SIDEBAR (if someone can respond here or Shane@eboc.org) Anyone with an opinion on Starbuck's www.createjobsforusa.org ?
12/8/2011 1:28 pm (et) Brain Merritt: LBP26~ You aren't from my church are you?:-) It has been a juggling act. My church is ecumenical and I feel this falls well within my calling. I think as long as I get my work done they have been good.
12/8/2011 1:29 pm (et) Moderator: LBP26 said: What should the social justice professional class hear from the Occupiers?
12/8/2011 1:29 pm (et) Moderator: LBP26 said: No, I am from your school and your old presbytery down here.
12/8/2011 1:29 pm (et) Moderator: rafael said: Our Facebook page is Occupy Toornto Protest Chaplains. feel free to come and join our conversation.
12/8/2011 1:30 pm (et) Brain Merritt: LBP26~Well, I have worked amongst them for a long time. I just don't want them parachuting in without helping those in a movement who are hauling water.
12/8/2011 1:30 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: I'm a long way from the centers of occupation, although
12/8/2011 1:31 pm (et) Brain Merritt: LBP26~many in my church are in strong support. Others couldn't care less. None are against.
12/8/2011 1:31 pm (et) Moderator: LBP26 said: I meant really hear. You said they should listen, so what would you advise them to actually hear?
12/8/2011 1:32 pm (et) Brain Merritt: I think if they are truly organizations that care from below they will not paternalize the response to the needs of the poorest of the poor.
12/8/2011 1:34 pm (et) Brain Merritt: LBP26~They have been working faithfully for years, but with little traction or success politically. It is time to listen to what a broader democratic movement says are the needs and solutions. This is what occupy is all about. Reclaiming public space for redress. There are plenty of Think tanks, social justice ministries and NGOs doing good work. I would say don't discount the people's ability to successfully petition for their own good.
12/8/2011 1:35 pm (et) Moderator: logs off on 12/8/2011 1:35 pm (et).
12/8/2011 1:35 pm (et) Clark Lobenstine: Brian, don't know if you saw my earlier comment before I had to sign off and back on again to get into the conversation. But I said, "Thanks for sharing and for being present in the Occupy DC movement, especially at
12/8/2011 1:35 pm (et) Susan C: private message to Moderator: logs in on 12/8/2011 1:35 pm (et).
12/8/2011 1:35 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: The First Amendment rights in full practice!
12/8/2011 1:36 pm (et) Brain Merritt: Thanks
12/8/2011 1:36 pm (et) Moderator: rafael said: I am Presbyterian. The people in my church who would be against, would be those who still think that church and politics dont mix. Within that view my role as pastor is in the church not with protesters. What I have found helpful is to frame my work in the movement as pastoral care. I continue to ask the question As communities of faith and resistance, what is our duty of care towards protesters.
12/8/2011 1:37 pm (et) Brain Merritt: Laura~ Yes it is about that and the freedom of assembly that has been winnowed down over the years to Protest zones and less and less public space.
12/8/2011 1:38 pm (et) Moderator: ShaneInDallas said: Tip: A good empowerment song is Tom Morello's 'Black Spartacus...' album is 'World Wide Rebel Songs' by 'The Night Watchman'
12/8/2011 1:38 pm (et) Brain Merritt: Rafael~ that is so fascinating. I think that is a wonderful way to frame it. It is funny that in the first few weeks most of the people in the camp didn't see this as a political movement either. They saw it as a social movement of regathering into tangible community. Also, witness to the world of the society that we would like to see.
12/8/2011 1:39 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: rafael, good question! the idea that church and politics should not mix can go both ways or one way - that politics should not influence church but church/religion should influence society/politics. Others (as you suggest) see a more absolute and two-way separation.
12/8/2011 1:39 pm (et) Brain Merritt: ShaneInDallas~ Now you are talking my language. Wore my Rage Against the Machine T-Shirt to a meeting at the National Council of Churches
12/8/2011 1:41 pm (et) Moderator: LBP26 said: I hear a lot of don't mix religion and politics, but the same people who say that are often the ones who push the flag and being American into every part of church.
12/8/2011 1:41 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: this is the 'litte guy', the (literal) 'man in the street' pressing back against 'big brother'
12/8/2011 1:41 pm (et) Moderator: Susan C said: It sounds very political theology-esque, does it hav to face many of the same critiques should the churches get involved?
12/8/2011 1:41 pm (et) Clark Lobenstine: Rafael, I believe the focus on our pastoral care with the protesters will engage many more people both in and out of the church. Brian's ministry is standing with the protestors. I admire both.
12/8/2011 1:42 pm (et) Brain Merritt: LBP26~The funny thing is that I have seen a huge amount of American flags. At the Action the other night they mic checked the constitution.
12/8/2011 1:42 pm (et) Brain Merritt: Laura S~ The other night the crowd started chanting impromptu "David beat Goliath!"
12/8/2011 1:43 pm (et) Moderator: rafael said: When churches say they do not want to be political, that is actually a political stance. But we need to be able to explain that to the people in the pews.
12/8/2011 1:43 pm (et) Brain Merritt: Susan C~ Anytime the church stands on the side of the poor against the powerful it will get crucified.
12/8/2011 1:44 pm (et) Moderator: LBP26 said: Rafael, I agree. That is why I preach against apathy and being lukewarm.
12/8/2011 1:44 pm (et) Moderator: rafael said: True that.
12/8/2011 1:45 pm (et) Brain Merritt: Rafael~It is essential to have both. Grace is always rippling outward. I think some of the great evolvement I have seen has been a church 2 blocks away lending their space.
12/8/2011 1:46 pm (et) Moderator: Susan C said: I also wonder if this translates to traditions outside mainstream, we seem to have brought up a lot of Christianity and even Judaism, but is there a place for other traditions? Have they been out there too?
12/8/2011 1:46 pm (et) Brain Merritt: The church that landed its space was reticent at first and now they are fired up.
12/8/2011 1:46 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: there is that old religious question of whether people of faith are to CHANGE society or to focus BEYOND this world that is hopelessly lost
12/8/2011 1:47 pm (et) Moderator: rafael said: I wonder if next time we meet we can talk about Protest As A Spiritual Practice.
12/8/2011 1:47 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: either way, the religous view seems to say that is something wrong in this world - change it or stay out of it
12/8/2011 1:47 pm (et) Brain Merritt: We have had Muslim and Seikh participation. I have asked the Buddhists. They are interested, but it becomes more difficult to organize outside of one's own tradition.
12/8/2011 1:48 pm (et) Brain Merritt: Laura S~ I think there is also the broader question. Maybe the spiritual essence is now in the park challenging our institutions to reform and transform. Maybe God wants us to listen to a prophetic voice outside our walls.
12/8/2011 1:49 pm (et) Brain Merritt: Rafael~ Excellent topic. That goes to the heart of my experience with occupy. It is a spiritual practice of being with and not doing for.
12/8/2011 1:49 pm (et) Moderator: Susan C said: I guess that answers my question as well, if they are helping I assume they find something in their tradition that prompts them to
12/8/2011 1:49 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: what percent of the 'occupy' people are NOT religious? This seems an interesting movement - religious and non-religious alike being involved side-by-side
12/8/2011 1:49 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: ...protesting the same thing. You don't see that very often!
12/8/2011 1:50 pm (et) Moderator: rafael said: John the Baptizer was an prophetic voice in the wilderness, away from the centers of power and privelege in
12/8/2011 1:50 pm (et) Clark Lobenstine: Brian, your comment that you are finding God more in the park than in the limestone walls reminds me of people saying there is more "church" downstairs (in fellowship halls) in AA meetings than in the folks that gather upstairs in the sanctuary.
12/8/2011 1:50 pm (et) Brain Merritt: Laura S~ A lot of so called non-religious. Yet, we had an affinity meeting the other night where the atheist asked the three Christians to offer a prayer for the group.
12/8/2011 1:51 pm (et) Brain Merritt:
12/8/2011 1:52 pm (et) Moderator: Susan C said: rafael - And Jesus brought that protest right back, confronting the centers of power!
12/8/2011 1:52 pm (et) Moderator: rafael said: The Spirit goes where she wills. I believe that Spirit is active outside the boundaries of church. .
12/8/2011 1:53 pm (et) Brain Merritt: Rafael~ It is interesting to see whom God used in Hebrew Texts as well. Ezekiel, Jeremiah, Moses, David, Solomon, Hosea, Jonah. Reading their stories I am not convinced that the most clean cut people are the ones that God uses.
12/8/2011 1:54 pm (et) Brain Merritt: Rafael~ I think that is an essential understanding in being spiritual in a post-modern world.
12/8/2011 1:54 pm (et) Moderator: Susan said: Rafael, I like the idea of Protest as Spiritual Practice. That said, I know I hear concern about the words 'Protest' and 'Occupy' getting in the way due to negative connotations (Occupation as power over...). Here in Wisc, I referred to those at the capitol as 'demonstrators'. From a faith perspective, maybe we are 'witnessing.'
12/8/2011 1:54 pm (et) Moderator: rafael said: The ochlos, the people that followed Jesus around in Mark's gospel were more scruffy than clean.
12/8/2011 1:55 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: how many people in THIS dialogue are actively involved or supporting the 'Occupy' movment? I ask because I do notice a LOT more people here this week beyond the handful of regulars we usually have in these chats
12/8/2011 1:55 pm (et) Brain Merritt: Rafael~ I'm afraid that Tony Perkins would disagree with us. There are certain evangelicals that think God is speaking through the business class.
12/8/2011 1:56 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: IOW, this seems to be a topic that got a lot of people excited enough to join today's chat
12/8/2011 1:56 pm (et) Brain Merritt: Laura S~ Obviously I am. ;-)
12/8/2011 1:56 pm (et) Moderator: LBP26 said: God speaks through the ones God chooses to speak through.
12/8/2011 1:56 pm (et) Moderator: rafael said: I am a Protestant Christian. All I need to do is to go back to my owned tradition and see the Reforming Traditions and what they did to change the world then.
12/8/2011 1:57 pm (et) Brain Merritt: LBP26~ Yes, that is exactly what I believe.
12/8/2011 1:57 pm (et) Brain Merritt: Rafael~ I keep telling my Presbyterian brothers and sisters that they would love #occupy. Tons of committees and a General Assembly every day.
12/8/2011 1:58 pm (et) Moderator: Hi everyone, we have just a couple of minutes left, so please finish any concluding thoughts
12/8/2011 1:58 pm (et) Moderator: rafael said: Can Occupy become the 'New Reformation'?
12/8/2011 1:59 pm (et) Moderator: ShaneInDallas said: Not active in
12/8/2011 1:59 pm (et) Moderator: Laura S said: rafael: except Occupy is seeking to reform our SOCIETY, NOT the church
12/8/2011 1:59 pm (et) Moderator: rafael said: When is our next chat?
12/8/2011 1:59 pm (et) Moderator: IFC holds weekly chats at this time on different topics.
12/8/2011 2:00 pm (et) Moderator: Thank you for your participation today. Next week our topic will be ‘What a Christian can Learn in Dialogue with Others,’ with Rev. Dr. Phil Wogaman, former Chair of IFC’s Board, hope to see you there! If you would like to contact or guest, please contact me at rebeccac@ifcmw.org.
12/8/2011 2:00 pm (et) Moderator: rafael said: The Reformating Movements of the 16th and 17th century ended up reforming Western Civilization itself.
12/8/2011 2:00 pm (et) Moderator: Also, this is a new effort on our part so we welcome your feedback! Any comments will be helpful. If you have any suggestion please feel free to email me at rebeccac@ifcmw.org.
12/8/2011 2:00 pm (et) Brain Merritt: I want to thank everyone who has been here. This is so much in the nature of #occupy. I appreciate the great comments and questions. Rafael I hope it does transform all of us. Semper Reformanda. Many social movements have pushed reform in religious institutions as well.
12/8/2011 2:01 pm (et) Moderator: This moderated chat room is just one example of the many programs which the InterFaith Conference is doing. If you are able and willing to financially support the InterFaith Conference’s vital year-round work, please donate now using the donate button on our website – www.ifcmw.org. You can also find out more about us and sign up for our bi-monthly newsletter.
12/8/2011 2:01 pm (et) Moderator: Again, next week we will have a chat at the same time on 'What a Christian Can Learn in Dialogue with Others.'
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